[WRC] 91e Rallye Automobile Monte-Carlo (16-22 January 2023)

[br21]

It was discussed during Team Managers Meeting and also Safety Briefing. The rule says you need to have at least one wheel on the road, it don't need to be marked in the roadbook. For me it was almost sure some people will make videos of that corner and use it for some protests.

[Sulland]

This started in Monte 2021 against Toksport, check how long the penalty list was then:

https://www.ewrc-results.com/penalty...te-carlo-2021/

In 21 it was a lot of 5 sec penalties for wrong route on stage. But in the last two years very few.
is that due to drivers no longer making the large cuts, or that the organisers dont check as eagerly, and wait for protests?

[ouvreur]

It was discussed during Team Managers Meeting and also Safety Briefing. The rule says you need to have at least one wheel on the road, it don't need to be marked in the roadbook. For me it was almost sure some people will make videos of that corner and use it for some protests.

But with all respect, it may be discussed or clarified in team manager meetings, but the rule itself is not fit for purpose. It's causing problem after problem on tarmac events - and will only continue to do so. "At least one wheel on the road" isn't a rallying rule, it's a circuit racing rule. How long until a competitor protests another for having just 1cm of the tread of one wheel touching the road - should the full contact patch be touching?

If cars putting all four wheels off the road is such a 'safety' issue, then it should be made impossible for them to do so. In Finland, the organisers use anti-cut devices to keep the average speeds down. What's stopping organisers doing that anywhere else in the world?

We should never, ever be in a situation where a driver taking a marginally more aggressive line on a rally, that is possible to take without smashing up some barriers or obstacles / going through tape etc., gets a time penalty. That's not rallying.

[J4MIE]

It all depends on the road book, if a certain corner, and a certain route through this corner is shown on diagrams than its all clear, if not you can get from A to B preaty much freestyle

No, you have to be on the defined road at all times. Only exception I’ve found is the Safari where there may be multiple tracks between points on the road book.
Even the stewards report stated where it occurred between road book tulips.

But with all respect, it may be discussed or clarified in team manager meetings, but the rule itself is not fit for purpose. It's causing problem after problem on tarmac events - and will only continue to do so. "At least one wheel on the road" isn't a rallying rule, it's a circuit racing rule. How long until a competitor protests another for having just 1cm of the tread of one wheel touching the road - should the full contact patch be touching?

If cars putting all four wheels off the road is such a 'safety' issue, then it should be made impossible for them to do so. In Finland, the organisers use anti-cut devices to keep the average speeds down. What's stopping organisers doing that anywhere else in the world?

We should never, ever be in a situation where a driver taking a marginally more aggressive line on a rally, that is possible to take without smashing up some barriers or obstacles / going through tape etc., gets a time penalty. That's not rallying.

Maybe organisers have better things to do than work out where everyone might break the perfectly good rules and spend the time & money to set up obstructions. There is exactly the same “controversy” when people hit these, or if cars ahead move them out the way, or indeed spectators.

There are all sorts of reasons that make this rule sensible, it might be a condition of using the roads. People are less tolerant of roads being ripped up due to a rally or having to clean up gravel/mud that’s been spread everywhere. People in rallying have to be responsible. Long gone are the days of just being able to do whatever they want.

[denkimi]

Although a rule of keeping at least 1 wheel on the track seems to make a little sense, the enforcement of it depending on competitors making a complaint, based on video's made by spectators does not.

This creates arbitrary decisions. You are allowed to cut as deep as you want, as long as nobody films it and puts it online. So either put physical anti-cut barriers out there, put an official with a camera who films everyone, or just don't bother and get rid of the rule all together.

[Danny0405]

This started in Monte 2021 against Toksport, check how long the penalty list was then:

https://www.ewrc-results.com/penalty...te-carlo-2021/

Well, if you take a close look, almost every big RC2 driver took a penalty in 2021, not only Toksport (all the Citroen were penalized with Bonato-Rossel-Camilli and not only them), and almost all the penalties were in SS11. And a lot of RC1 drivers where also penalized for the same reason in that stage.
I don’t have the full history but it looks like more a strange spot in the stage than a dirty blow from someone (and if it’s a competitor that did this, doesn’t look to be Citroen).
Which is pretty different than Ypres 2022 or Monte 2023

[ouvreur]

Well, if you take a close look, almost every big RC2 driver took a penalty in 2021, not only Toksport (all the Citroen were penalized with Bonato-Rossel-Camilli and not only them), and almost all the penalties were in SS11. And a lot of RC1 drivers where also penalized for the same reason in that stage.
I don’t have the full history but it looks like more a strange spot in the stage than a dirty blow from someone (and if it’s a competitor that did this, doesn’t look to be Citroen).
Which is pretty different than Ypres 2022 or Monte 2023

You are quite right. If memory serves, the 'query' was between the manufacturer teams, not WRC2/3.

[ouvreur]

Maybe organisers have better things to do than work out where everyone might break the perfectly good rules and spend the time & money to set up obstructions. There is exactly the same “controversy” when people hit these, or if cars ahead move them out the way, or indeed spectators.

But you see, that's exactly my point. Organisers are already doing just that in a lot of places, but not everywhere. That's why for me, the FIA should either make it mandatory to completely 'define the roadway' consistently - everywhere - or just get rid of the rule, and only insist to organisers that it be done in places where it's a safety issue, or PR concern. Which takes us to the next point...

There are all sorts of reasons that make this rule sensible, it might be a condition of using the roads. People are less tolerant of roads being ripped up due to a rally or having to clean up gravel/mud that’s been spread everywhere. People in rallying have to be responsible. Long gone are the days of just being able to do whatever they want.

In places where it's a public relations issue, safety matter, or condition of using the road - guess what! - organisers already put anti-cut devices. Otherwise - guess what!! - crews will take the cut. As well as that, I can tell you from personal experience as part of the organising team for a tarmac closed road rally, that it is already a condition of using the public highway that the roadway should be cleaned before it is reopened - either that, or the municipal council will do it themselves and send the bill. Organisers won't get away with being irresponsible.

So again, if the rule is intended to keep residents on the stages happy / roads clean, it isn't fit for purpose. There's no way in which it's fit for purpose. We don't need an ambiguous rule that, as someone else on here has said, only gets enforced if someone is unlucky enough to get filmed breaking it. It's a nonsense, and it causes nothing but problems.

[Rallyper]

Gryazin's cut

https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxkkGHFAd...yEt06TohEBDYhW

Same corner Oliver was off in 1 st run?
In that case Gryazin wasn´t the only one having wrong route...
Edit: Yes, must be SS11/SS14 same stage. Entrevaux 1/2.
That corner had been cut by so many other cars it was gravel on tarmac all over.

[Rallyper]

Who asked you anything? You probably have internet thanks to othe EU members and donations, nothing else.

Just a wannabe troll from somewhere faraway bs..

Sorry, you don´t have full story of N.O.T.
If you had, you wouldn´t have called him wannabee... (He´s been on this forum for ages, now and then...)