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  1. #1
    Senior Member AnttiL's Avatar
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    WRC main class in 2025

    The current Rally1 hybrids are going to be used for a three year period, but what's next in 2025? Whatever is the decision, it should be made soon in order to get new manufacturers ready to join in 2025. The FIA president Mohammed Bin Sulyaem said he wants to take a "blank sheet of paper" to make the new rules.

    Will the hybrids continue with the manufacturers supplying their own hybrid units? Will the hybrid battery be increased for longer HEV zones?

    Or should we go to full electric already? Is the world ready for that in 2025? Would that attract manufacturers, is this what they will be most selling and manufacturing in 2025?

    Or is hydrogen going be a thing soon? Who will build the first hydrogen rally car and when?

    Or will be go to a cheaper option, maybe Rally2? Rally2 with a light hybrid package? Rally2 with a bigger restrictor? With more freedom like AP4?

    Or maybe something like Maxi Rally/N5 or Oreca Rally2 Kit where everyone uses the same engine and transmission with a bodyshell of their choice?

    Or are we going back to WRC cars?

    Let me know your thoughts. The job of the FIA will not be easy but I hope they are already sharpening their pens for that blank sheet of paper so we won't be as late as with Rally1 hybrids.

  2. #2
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    I hope it stays similar to now, but maybe more freedom in terms of silouette and chassis design. Given the opportunity of the spaceframe chassis they might as well entice manufacturers to design cars with more unique silouettes so the "they are just shopping carts" crowd will finally shut up. BEV would be a dissaster in many ways.

  3. Likes: AnttiL (24th January 2022),WRCStan (24th January 2022)
  4. #3
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    They won't make decision soon because that would kill any attempt of getting new manufacturer until then.

    Also shouldn't the same concept be here until 2026, with only some tweeks in 25?

  5. Likes: AnttiL (24th January 2022)
  6. #4
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    Fully electric

    Only real issue is the sound, both for safety and for sporting perspective (hearing what the driver does).

    So FIA should work with Baumschlager and/or Paddon on creating sound rules.

  7. Likes: AnttiL (24th January 2022),Tanelv (24th January 2022)
  8. #5
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    Some important things to consider? (maybe)

    - Formula-E's contract with FIA guarantees electric engine exclusivity until 2038 (or something like that). That way, F1 cant go Electric. I believe Extreme-E's contract with FIA will have a similar "exclusivity clausule" regarding electric engines...We know Extreme-E and WRC are "more different between each other" than "F1 and F-E" are from each other but we know how these things work... meh

    - FIA probably have bigger plans and intentions for the new World RallyRaid Championship (Dakar) so I'd presume WRC will also not be able to have this "open class" on the front, where we could see lots of tech innovation, crazy prototypes and "Open Fuel" regulations.

    That being said I imagine bio/synth fuels on hybrid engines are whats left for WRC. Not relevant at all IMO, especially since bio/synth fuel on hybrid engines is also 'whats left' for Formula 1... (they are way bigger, so they are the first option if some brand wants to race somewhere just for the Propaganda).
    Last edited by lmmjvss; 23rd January 2022 at 22:07.

  9. Likes: AnttiL (24th January 2022)
  10. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenneth View Post
    They won't make decision soon because that would kill any attempt of getting new manufacturer until then.

    Also shouldn't the same concept be here until 2026, with only some tweeks in 25?
    Don’t really see how we can seriously imagine a new manufacturer to come in the current context, especially with a regulation that could change in 2026.
    Even Matton in the end told «*no new manufacturer before 2024*at the earliest*» and when you know all the shit he said about new manufacturers really interested...

    For me, more than the technical part of electric or not (even if it must be taken into account), the main point is to reduce dramatically costs to allow the manufacturer to develop a client-competition model to fund their top-class program and even why not, allowing half-manufacturer entrance (such as M-Sport or Toksport); it would lower the financial risk for the manufacturers and open largely the pool of manufacturers able to come in the game. So I would go to a Rally2 upgraded style of car.
    It may imply WRC do not attract the main brand of a group (maybe more Skoda than VW, Mini more than BMW, Kia more than Hyundai, ...) but I think the number of manufacturers is more important than the big names, ...

  11. Likes: AnttiL (24th January 2022)
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    For me it is not worth discussing the cars without also discussing the wider picture: Who are the stakeholders, what are the aims etc. Should it remain to be manufacturer driven class?

    Currently we have the FIA pay for and provide hybrid units to promote their care for the environment and this is their chosen pathway. The commercial rights holder WRC Promotor also mandate an exciting car formula to make a more entertaining consumer offer. By being in a commercial rights walled-garden WRC Promotor puts itself in the position where it has to sponsor most of the athletes and teams itself to encourage their co-operation in creating its own consumer product. It probably also has to do it to enable their participation to make up for the sponsors that don't see the value of being in that walled garden.

    In the age of perpetually record low interest rates, please just shut down talk of costs being too high for manufacturer brands. Bored of it. They don't think this way, it's either a necessary marketing strategy or it's not.

    Rally2/AP4/Maxi is a step back for the environment aims. Rally2 Hybrid won't sell as an exciting entertainment package especially when genuine sporting interest teams don't commit to all rounds. A central supplier of unbadged cars changes the need to be a manufacturer entrant. A central supplier of new fuel power trains for bodyshells is possible but I'm not sure who would take this up even if the tech exists.


    For me, allow any entrants to enter cars constructed by any constructor based on cars manufactured by any manufacturer. This wider rule change opens up the sporting element. Open up the classes to allow different fuels and bodyshell shapes and base Rally1-5 on power/weight ratio with basic safety requirements. This opens up the level of commitment needed. Also lets Africa, America and Asia build cars they recognise and use that compete with the European cars in a connected World Championship.

    The commercial rights could be owned by manufacturer entrants. Double the value of them being there, give them reason to stick around and encourage the stick arounds to join. They should be collectively in charge of their own promotion. FIA should set up a vehicle for this purpose and once it's sold to the entrants it's done. Avoid selling all commercial rights exclusively to a third party.

    So to answer the question directly, new manufacturers aren't coming without either the wider rules, organisation or structure changing. It's not just a formula thing. My impression from the 'blank sheet of paper' suggests MBS does not approve of Rally1 being Category II, though I don't think he'll change anything but just alienate himself by speaking against the status quo.

  13. Likes: AnttiL (24th January 2022),Jewy46 (24th January 2022),lancia037 (24th January 2022),lmmjvss (24th January 2022),steve.mandzij (24th January 2022)
  14. #8
    Senior Member AnttiL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenneth View Post
    They won't make decision soon because that would kill any attempt of getting new manufacturer until then.

    Also shouldn't the same concept be here until 2026, with only some tweeks in 25?
    I mean, the three first years are all they have agreed. I remember also this talk that it would be a five year cycle with some changes for 2025, but after Bin Sulyaem's comments about blank paper, I was inspired to make this thread.

    Also, I want to make this thread to prevent hindsight in 2025, you will have your older visions recorded :P

  15. #9
    Senior Member AnttiL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mknight View Post
    Fully electric

    Only real issue is the sound, both for safety and for sporting perspective (hearing what the driver does).

    So FIA should work with Baumschlager and/or Paddon on creating sound rules.
    For sure other issues as well but this would be my choice as well. It's what the car manufacturers are now putting on their future strategies and where the sales are increasing the most.

  16. #10
    Senior Member AnttiL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lmmjvss View Post
    That being said I imagine bio/synth fuels on hybrid engines are whats left for WRC. Not relevant at all IMO, especially since bio/synth fuel on hybrid engines is also 'whats left' for Formula 1... (they are way bigger, so they are the first option if some brand wants to race somewhere just for the Propaganda).
    But WRC already has now non-fossil synth fuel

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