WRC main class in 2025

[PLuto]

you could limit it to wrc1 cars. and limit it to 1 van and 2 technicians per competitor.

and even when you allow it for everyone, remember that there will ever only be a few vans at the same place in the same time, due to the limited time and the starting time differences.

whatever the solution, the lack of service these days ruins a lot of great fights. a small issues nowadays can create great problems because some small part is not available.

1 van and 2 technicians per competitor is same like now with TFZ, and you can see how difficult for organisers is to manage it. And allow "competition" of service wans to travel between stages like in the past is nonsense...

[Mirek]

Anyone who is against the idea of Rally2+, try to remember how superior even the current Rally2 car is compared to the WRC cars of 20 years ago.

This shows some of the improvements in performance, braking and cornering as well as being lighter, safer, more efficient and cheaper.

https://youtu.be/dzQr2CEBXgY?si=UKjztrUQTfMRuQ7n

Then imagine Rally2+ with even more power and bigger aero...

I am against the Rally2+ for absolutely different reasons.

1) It must make Rally2 cars more expensive for the customers, there is no other option.

2) It must make either Rally2 cars less reliable or even more expensive because they were designed for the power they have now, not for what they would have with larger restrictors.

3) It would make national and regional rallying more expensive for the reasons listed above.

4) It would not bring a miracle drug for the WRC. It will make 1-2 seasons more interesting before the top 1-2 teams start to dominate again but all the cons for the national and regional competition will stay.

5) The idea that all Rally2 producers would automatically join the WRC is naive and more likely than not it won't happen.

The thing is that R5/Rally2 has been an exceptionally successful formula for national and regional rallying and I am afraid of what intoduction of them to the top WRC level would cause not for the WRC, but for the other levels of rallying.

[lmmjvss]

Rally2+ is nonsense. It would cost a lot to upgrade the whole car. Larger restrictors and better aero will required better suspensions that will require stronger gearboxes, that will require more stuff... Its going to get expensive and no one would jump in because these modified cars would not be allowed to race in national championship.... And Msport would complain that just 2 guys bought these cars because they are still expensive.
Rally2 for top class in my opinion. And dont worry, the guy who works at the local restaurant will not buy a rally2 yaris and starting beating the guys that race wrc, wrc2, erc, national series... The talent is the "something more than just buying rally2 car"

[Steve Boyd]

Really cool video! Thanks for sharing it mate!

Tho Im not sure Im onboard with this Rally2+ idea some of you fellas here keep talking about.
I mean, I dont actually KNOW how that would work. Cuz it gotte be CHEAP.... AND it gotte be 'quick' to "change back" to normal Rally2.
Like... If its just a matter of having a wider air intake on the engine ("One piece") and a new bigger rear wing ("One piece"), than fine. Cuz that would be relatvely simple and cheap for someone on a tighter budget like Kajetan or Chris Ingram to do (upgrade to R2+) and compete in a WRC round, but then they can easily change back to a normal Rally2 to compete at the national levels they usually compete. If its NOT THIS EASY to go form Rally2 to R2+ then to return from R2+ to Rally2, then its not the beeeeest ideia IMO.

OF COURSE there would be WAY MORE entries in WRC. Richier or sponsored guys could do it. Imagine Monte Carlo 2025 with Nasser Al Athya, Loeb, CARLOS SAINZ, Paddon... haha These fellas can find the budget to modified a Rally2 to R2+ and never bother that "Oh, cant race them on my national championship now".

U'know? am I thinking about this in the right way?

If these cars were run by privateers who did their own preparation in their own garages then you might be right.

Nobody anywhere near the top of the sport does that these days. All the leading cars are prepared by businesses who will charge drivers whatever they think they can to run a car on an event for them. These outfits often have different cars for tar and gravel to save the time & cost of swapping from one spec to another. There's no way they'd be converting Rally2+ to Rally2 and back again if that involved a load of body & mechanical parts. If Kajetanowicz or Ingram wants a car for WRC, ERC or a National event they shop around and see what deals are on. They don't necessarily use the same car on different events - even if it comes from the same preparation outfit (and don't let the car registration number fool you - plates are easier to swap than any other parts!). It's all down to whether the vinyl wrap is easier/cheaper to change than the mechanicals.

[Mirek]

If these cars were run by privateers who did their own preparation in their own garages then you might be right.

Nobody anywhere near the top of the sport does that these days. All the leading cars are prepared by businesses who will charge drivers whatever they think they can to run a car on an event for them. These outfits often have different cars for tar and gravel to save the time & cost of swapping from one spec to another. There's no way they'd be converting Rally2+ to Rally2 and back again if that involved a load of body & mechanical parts. If Kajetanowicz or Ingram wants a car for WRC, ERC or a National event they shop around and see what deals are on. They don't necessarily use the same car on different events - even if it comes from the same preparation outfit (and don't let the car registration number fool you - plates are easier to swap than any other parts!). It's all down to whether the vinyl wrap is easier/cheaper to change than the mechanicals.

Yes. Anyway this very idea of swapping the parts for WRC and national rallying failed miserably already with RRC/WRC and there is no reason why it shall work now.

[Morte66]

If these cars were run by privateers who did their own preparation in their own garages then you might be right.

Nobody anywhere near the top of the sport does that these days.

On a tangent inspired by that... We hear the term "local heroes" in threads like this. But how much does being local count for? Has a local driver done the stages in (say) the Central European Rally before, do they have better knowledge than WRC drivers with all their recce and study of previous onboards and so on?

Once you get beyond "Scandi-Baltic drivers are more familiar with snow", how much does being local count for in rally driving?

[Rallyper]

How? Good luck findinfg areas for roadside repair in 2024 traffic. Sorry but that may be possible in deserted areas of Sweden but absolutely impossible in many other WRC countries.

"Roadside" does not litterally mean just beside heavy traffic. It means of course areas you can put a reasonable cars out of traffic.

However I think we´ve happened to avoid the main reason; remote services may attract more spectators even out of stages, making WRC back to the roots again.

[Morte66]

In this thread, people have talked about restrictors and aero and powertrains (especially clever diffs), and how they affect "spectacularness".

But I wonder, is suspension a bigger factor? Group B cars had a lot of power, but they also bounced around on uneven ground. It seems to me (not an expert) that modern suspension is so good it just eats the bumps and makes a lot of rally stages look not so different from circuit racing as the car goes between corners.

[Rallyper]

Rally2+ (in version current Rally2 cars with bigger restrictor and added aero) are nonsense. If they want something between Rally1 and Rally2, it should be with different regulations (of course can be based with lot of things on current Rally2)...

Maybe I missed your earlier quotes, but can you develope why it is nonsense?
Edit: read it above.

[Morte66]

I am against the Rally2+ for absolutely different reasons.

1) It must make Rally2 cars more expensive for the customers, there is no other option.

2) It must make either Rally2 cars less reliable or even more expensive because they were designed for the power they have now, not for what they would have with larger restrictors.

3) It would make national and regional rallying more expensive for the reasons listed above.

4) It would not bring a miracle drug for the WRC. It will make 1-2 seasons more interesting before the top 1-2 teams start to dominate again but all the cons for the national and regional competition will stay.

5) The idea that all Rally2 producers would automatically join the WRC is naive and more likely than not it won't happen.

The thing is that R5/Rally2 has been an exceptionally successful formula for national and regional rallying and I am afraid of what intoduction of them to the top WRC level would cause not for the WRC, but for the other levels of rallying.

Thank you for the well-reasoned argument.

I don't know much about rallying, but I do know the FIA. It is entirely their style to ditch the top category, try to pretend that they're not downgrading it by beefing up WRC2, and spoil the rest of rallying. If they even think about the rest of rallying, they won't see it as their problem.