WRC main class in 2025

[Eli]

Latvala thinks hydrogen power can be the future...

“Hybrid is for this era but I think we need something new and I think hydrogen could be an option in the rally world because in rallying we can’t go full electric, it is impossible.

And without the sound nobody will go to the forest or to the mountains to watch the cars, we need to have sound in rallying. In circuit racing it is not as important but in rallying we need it.”

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/l...15080/?nrt=193

So basically, almost 3 months later, Dirtfish comes out with (pretty much) the same thing: https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/full-...f-wrc-latvala/

[lmmjvss]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EaBU...ture=emb_title

I liked the Hydrogen car.
I understand that to run a Hydrogen car takes something like "one extra step" (as a whole) when compared to an electric car but hey, whatever. I give up on the "lets be logical". If it works and brands support the idea, do it. Just leave some room for privateers to run petrol cars if they are cheaper

[mknight]

If it works and brands support the idea, do it.

That's the problem.

The only big brand pushing hydrogen these days is Toyota, others gave up some time ago.

[sidrun]

That's the problem.

The only big brand pushing hydrogen these days is Toyota, others gave up some time ago.

I belive that hyundai is developing hydrogen technology as well
https://mobile.hyundai.co.uk/new-cars/nexo

[Sergiow]

I really like hydrogen. We don't need metals for batteries, we could keep the sound, cars will stay light, range is decent etc.
But scientists need to find solutions for making Hydrogen in an environmentally friendly way and also how to storage it as hydrogen leaks easily.

Scientists in Belgium already found a solution: Belgian Researchers Develop a Solar Panel that Produces Hydrogen.



In this case, photovoltaic panels produce electricity that splits the water molecule into two parts: hydrogen on one side, oxygen that goes back into the atmosphere. As for hydrogen, it can be stored and reused as electricity via a fuel cell. The panel produces an average of 250 liters of hydrogen per day. https://hydrogen-central.com/belgian...uces-hydrogen/

The big problem with Hydrogen is the pressure: stations dispense hydrogen as a compressed gas at pressures of 10,000 psi (H70) for light-duty vehicles and 5,000 psi (H35) for all other vehicles. This pressure is maintained once dispensed to the car. This will create huge security concerns. Some time ago a Hydrogen station in the Nordics was blown up. And that high pressure at the stations will make filling up your hydrogen car way less practical and time consuming because after each fill the pressure needs to be built up for the next customer ...

But I agree that Hydrogen is way better than electricty because the precious metals needed for electric cars are even more scare and Geo political related compared with oil. My best guess for 2025 is that F1 aims to unveil the new Formula 1 engine – the second-generation hybrid power unit – which will be carbon neutral and powered by a drop-in advanced sustainable fuel.

[seb_sh]

There are other short term options as well such as the fuel used in WEC. Apparently made by some bacteria from remains of grapes after making wine. https://competition.totalenergies.co...ergies-and-wec
Also they will have a hydrogen class at Le Mans but it has been delayed.

I'm also skeptical of batteries due to the raw materials, manufacturing process, lifespan and disposal.

[mknight]

I'm also skeptical of batteries due to the raw materials, manufacturing process, lifespan and disposal.

Nothing of that has any relevance for their use in rallying.

Firesafety (managable cause unlike petrol or hydrogen they don't "explode") and sound (managable but can be "alien") are the only relevant issues.

[seb_sh]

Nothing of that has any relevance for their use in rallying.

Firesafety (managable cause unlike petrol or hydrogen they don't "explode") and sound (managable but can be "alien") are the only relevant issues.

True but they do have relevance for roadcars which is I suppose why the manufacturers insist on having electrificaton in motorsport. If it were up to me I'd make some category with big loud internal combustion engines using those carbon neutral fuels just for the show. The manufacturers can go to formula E if they want electrification.

[mknight]

imo there are two ways for WRC

- "Big, loud and popular". If WRC is popular enough it doesn't matter much to manus what technology it uses relative to their roadcars. (writing this just as I read that Audi announced they go to F1).

Problem is that right now WRC is not popular enough and last time it was this big relative to other motorsports was in Group B times and partly in WRC 2000-2005. Various people have been trying to change this for long time, so by now I doubt it will succeed. 2017 WRC rules have been a "Group B revival" effort and while we had epic competition for 3 years in long term I dunno if I want to call them a success.

If I try not to be too negative maybe using "new media" might help. "Drive to survive" really boosted F1 popularity a lot for example. You might say that the rise of online-videos and onboards contributed a lot to WRC popularity in 2000-2005.

- "Similar to roadcars". This has also worked before. For manus like Subaru and Mitsubishi it really boosted their standings outside Japan in 1990s. In this case "similar to roadcars" these days means going EV.

I think most people would agree that current hybrid rules are an effort to be something in between and are at best a stopgap measure.

[AnttiL]

Was it mentioned that Toyota Yaris Hydrogen prototype in Ypres was allowed to run for not more than 20 km at once. It was brought to the stage starts on a trailer, and driven onto another trailer at the finish. And it was had to be taken to Bruxelles for refueling. I see right now more challenges with this stuff than with electric cars. But having the traditional engine there is obviously good for rallying.