Craig Breen

[denkimi]

The issue is that penetration of a rally/race car by an object with small cross section is virtually impossible to prevent because the kinetic energy of the car is way too much for creating any sort of working protection. Moreover in most cases the objects penetrates the cockpit through the windshield or side windows. Even if you put a bullet proof glass (which is super heavy) it will not be enough to prevent penetration by something like a steel pipe at higher speeds. It's not an issue of a tube frame.

Just to illustrate what I am talking about. The WRC car with the crew weights around 1400 kg. If it is going 100 km/h it has a kinetic energy equivalent to a shot from this.

If you have an object with a small cross-section it will penetrate whatever you can build into a car. I remember I saw a railguard penetrating an engine block of a BMW X5 in a Kubica-style accident.

i will use fourmaux again as an example:



there is just nothing to stop objects coming in from the side. even things that would create just a big dent in a normal metal door could become lethal in these plastic cars.
They added a second hoop, but they should have also added a 1 or 2mm thick metal plate between the hoops and between the X in the doors instead of just foam.
it would add just a few kg's at max, but that would be the same for all so it doesn't matter.

[trykmann]

Windows are still unprotected.

[Steve Boyd]

A thin sheet of steel isn't enough. Anybody else here remember the Marcus Gronholm "Timo's ass …" quote when something came through the floor of the car.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TAGbrM-MMRk

[Mirek]

i will use fourmaux again as an example:



there is just nothing to stop objects coming in from the side. even things that would create just a big dent in a normal metal door could become lethal in these plastic cars.
They added a second hoop, but they should have also added a 1 or 2mm thick metal plate between the hoops and between the X in the doors instead of just foam.
it would add just a few kg's at max, but that would be the same for all so it doesn't matter.

I think that here the door simply fell off. A layer of sheet metal on the door laying somewhere in the bushes would change nothing on the safety.

The proper request in that case is to request hinge and lock design which must keep the door shut during an accident (needs to be exactly defined by the rules) and in the same time can not get stuck. It's nothing new, every stock car needs to fulfill such requirement. I guess that something was done because I don't remember the cars loosing door anymore.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Exactly. A shot from a pistol is 500J, that is 2000x less and an equivalent of a car moving by a speed of 2 km/h but you still need 20 mm thick glass to stop it. That is about 25 kg for a side window (glass alone, not a frame to hold it during a crash). For sure the bullet has a smaller cross section than a pole so the penetration ability will be lesser but for an idea about what energies we are talking about it is a good comparison I think.

What I'm getting at is that a rally car collision at relatively low speed, side-on with a wooden fence, should not lead to the death of the driver.

But they all seem to just have accepted that it's ok...

[Mirek]

What I'm getting at is that a rally car collision at relatively low speed, side-on with a wooden fence, should not lead to the death of the driver.

But they all seem to just have accepted that it's ok...

There is no silver bullet here because the laws of physics are universal. Unless you want to watch a race of 3 tons heavy armoured cars an accident like that of Craig will always lead to a penetration of the cabin.

[Walach]

As Mirek said over and over again, laws of physics are universal... here the wooden slat went through the metal door like nothing and pierced into the seat



https://youtu.be/Pg5IhwnQmVo?si=QbXv2JuZ98LtPmxz&t=260

https://youtu.be/vsmrBJGfDbc?si=vEBdwSeQjyTZHzZp&t=37

[denkimi]

A thin sheet of steel isn't enough. Anybody else here remember the Marcus Gronholm "Timo's ass …" quote when something came through the floor of the car.

I think that here the door simply fell off. A layer of sheet metal on the door laying somewhere in the bushes would change nothing on the safety.

I don't mean a metal sheet in the door, I mean a 2mm metal plate welded to the rollcage. You can't stop everything because the driver still needs to see outside, but a lot of openings that he doesn't need could be closed way better than they are now.

[Mirek]

I don't mean a metal sheet in the door, I mean a 2mm metal plate welded to the rollcage. You can't stop everything because the driver still needs to see outside, but a lot of openings that he doesn't need could be closed way better than they are now.

Even if the comparison is very imperfect because of the penetrator cross section I'll go back to the pistol bullet. It has an energy equivalent to a WRC car moving at only 2 km/h but it can penetrate 4 mm of steel. A car moving at 20 km/h has 86x more energy. What You propose would help just a little and it would bring about 20 kg weight in places which are inconvenient for the vehicle performance.

[Jarek Z]

European Rally Championship remembers Craig Breen:
https://www.fiaerc.com/a/news/w27315...ower-Stage-win