Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 34
  1. #11
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Greenwich, London UK
    Posts
    3,438
    Like
    14
    Liked 789 Times in 651 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by F1nKS View Post
    Mercedes Racing is a billion-dollar sports and entertainment franchise. Toto not going to throw his investment away for spite. Nor would I expect Ineos. Now maybe Daimler will get rid of their 1/3 share - but that been the rumor that they wanted out of F1 racing anyway.
    If Mercedes are not impressed with how this is handled, l can see them pulling out of F1. They have put up with quite a lot of things that they were not comfortable with. The punishing regulations of the 2021 season, the strange decisions of the stewards most of the season and l doubt they are properly invested in the new regulations of 2022. They have done it before, can very easily do it again now.

    I think it would be a serious miscalculation if the FIA and the F1M assume Mercedes would not pull out if Mercedes feel unfairly treated.
    Last edited by Nitrodaze; 12th December 2021 at 23:38.
    Better a witty fool than a foolish wit.
    William Shakespeare

  2. #12
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    1,919
    Like
    1
    Liked 1,115 Times in 596 Posts
    i don't think it was legal, i don't think it was the right thing to do.

    but whatever they did, some group was always going to complain about it.

  3. #13
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    2,946
    Like
    173
    Liked 308 Times in 206 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by denkimi View Post
    i don't think it was legal, i don't think it was the right thing to do.

    but whatever they did, some group was always going to complain about it.
    There is a saying for people in power.. 'You can please some of the people some of the time but you can't please all of the people all of the time'

    FIA - ' Hold my beer' ...

  4. #14
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Greenwich, London UK
    Posts
    3,438
    Like
    14
    Liked 789 Times in 651 Posts
    I wonder if Hamilton would continue with F1 after he has sat down and reflected on this. He may go into retirement on the back of this. Great new for the young drivers like Ocon but it would send a damning message to the formula.
    Better a witty fool than a foolish wit.
    William Shakespeare

  5. #15
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    2,946
    Like
    173
    Liked 308 Times in 206 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Nitrodaze View Post
    I wonder if Hamilton would continue with F1 after he has sat down and reflected on this. He may go into retirement on the back of this. Great new for the young drivers like Ocon but it would send a damning message to the formula.
    I think he will likely want one more to beat Michaels 7 titles. If he didn't, he would have retired already IMO.

  6. Likes: gm99 (13th December 2021),N. Jones (13th December 2021)
  7. #16
    Senior Member F1nKS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2020
    Location
    Wichita, Kansas U.S.A
    Posts
    774
    Like
    14
    Liked 185 Times in 149 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Nitrodaze View Post
    If Mercedes are not impressed with how this is handled, l can see them pulling out of F1. They have put up with quite a lot of things that they were not comfortable with. The punishing regulations of the 2021 season, the strange decisions of the stewards most of the season and l doubt they are properly invested in the new regulations of 2022. They have done it before, can very easily do it again now.

    I think it would be a serious miscalculation if the FIA and the F1M assume Mercedes would not pull out if Mercedes feel unfairly treated.
    I guess it is not out of the realm that Daimler might pull out. They have been cutting their exposure so they went from a majority to a minority member. But I don't think they will because they see the value of what Liberty is actually trying to do with F1 - making these team franchises, cost capping, the social media exposure.

    But if Daimler does leave, it just means the Mercedes team will be re-branded to something else.

    But let's say they did totally pull out. Ferrari would probably celebrate.
    Last edited by F1nKS; 13th December 2021 at 03:15.

  8. #17
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    2,858
    Like
    62
    Liked 478 Times in 371 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by denkimi View Post
    i don't think it was legal, i don't think it was the right thing to do.

    but whatever they did, some group was always going to complain about it.
    I don't care whether someone is complaining or not. The race director has no excuse for not following the rules as legislated. I am happy with whoever wins once the rules are followed correctly. Yes, I would prefer if Lewis won but had the rules been followed and Max won I'd have no complaints or hesitation in congratulating him. The way I see it now is no one wins out of this. One the one hand you have a drivers champion that is only champion because the race director gifted it to him and, even if by some miracle Mercedes do get the race result overturned, Lewis would not have won his 8th world title the right way so it would not feel right for him either.

    This drivers title is tainted both ways now which is a real shame for both Lewis and Max because they were both simply amazing this year.

    Another thing this brought to my mind is that I think there must be some sort of limit to the number of yellow flag incidents drivers cause in a certain time period before they lose their license. That was complete driver error from Latifi yesterday. Him, Mazepin and Tsunoda have caused so many yellow cars this year and last. F1 is not a finishing school. I think some rule needs to be brought in that if you crash, say 3 times in a year due to driver error, you lose your license for a year. It's not acceptable at this level of motorsport for these guys to continually cause these yellow flag incidents and to simply get away with it.

  9. #18
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Greenwich, London UK
    Posts
    3,438
    Like
    14
    Liked 789 Times in 651 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by The Black Knight View Post
    I don't care whether someone is complaining or not. The race director has no excuse for not following the rules as legislated. I am happy with whoever wins once the rules are followed correctly. Yes, I would prefer if Lewis won but had the rules been followed and Max won I'd have no complaints or hesitation in congratulating him. The way I see it now is no one wins out of this. One the one hand you have a drivers champion that is only champion because the race director gifted it to him and, even if by some miracle Mercedes do get the race result overturned, Lewis would not have won his 8th world title the right way so it would not feel right for him either.

    This drivers title is tainted both ways now which is a real shame for both Lewis and Max because they were both simply amazing this year.

    Another thing this brought to my mind is that I think there must be some sort of limit to the number of yellow flag incidents drivers cause in a certain time period before they lose their license. That was complete driver error from Latifi yesterday. Him, Mazepin and Tsunoda have caused so many yellow cars this year and last. F1 is not a finishing school. I think some rule needs to be brought in that if you crash, say 3 times in a year due to driver error, you lose your license for a year. It's not acceptable at this level of motorsport for these guys to continually cause these yellow flag incidents and to simply get away with it.
    Quite!

    The integrity of the entire formula is on the balance now. I fail to see why venues would spend billions of dollars to stage a fixed championship. F1 is a platform for its competition and it's expertise in officiating racing competition efficiently, effectively and fairly. This season they have failed to be consistent and fair.

    They have made a great season into a farcical championship. Which has effectively devalued Verstappen's championship title. He would say l am world champion of 2021 but everyone would think yes but it was given to you by Masi. The fact remains that he would not have won it if the rules were followed. So it effectively becomes a very hollow title. He drove brilliantly this year but he did not earn the title, it was given to him.

    This race is a summary of a truly controversial hard-fought year. It was inconsistent as it was clearly biased. The regulation was executed in an arbitrary manner that confused everyone most of the time. It lowered the driving standards to a point of placing drivers in a dangerous situation. Monza could have resulted in a fatality if the Hallow was not there. One would have thought that would have been the warning sign to tighten up the controll on driving standards but it carried on until the first lap of the last race of the season.

    In my eyes, nobody won. Formula One are losers here because they have produced a farcical season of racing. Verstappen has not won because he would not have won if Masi had not given it to him on a platter. And Hamilton has not won because he was racing in circumstances where the odds had been stacked up against him.

    The 2021 F1 SEASON WAS A FARCE!

    If you are a Verstappen fan, then you would say he won by any means possible. If you are not, what happened would leave you wondering if this was right. If it happened now, you can be damn sure it would happen again in the future.
    Last edited by Nitrodaze; 13th December 2021 at 11:27.
    Better a witty fool than a foolish wit.
    William Shakespeare

  10. Likes: The Black Knight (13th December 2021)
  11. #19
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    2,858
    Like
    62
    Liked 478 Times in 371 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Nitrodaze View Post
    Quite!

    The integrity of the entire formula is on the balance now. I fail to see why venues would spend billions of dollars to stage a fixed championship. F1 is a platform for its competition and it's expertise in officiating racing competition efficiently, effectively and fairly. This season they have failed to be consistent and fair.

    They have made a great season into a farcical championship. Which has effectively devalued Verstappen's championship title. He would say l am world champion of 2021 but everyone would think yes but it was given to you by Masi. The fact remains that he would not have won it if the rules were followed. So it effectively becomes a very hollow title. He drove brilliantly this year but he did not earn the title, it was given to him.

    This race is a summary of a truly controversial hard-fought year. It was inconsistent as it was clearly biased. The regulation was executed in an arbitrary manner that confused everyone most of the time. It lowered the driving standards to a point of placing drivers in a dangerous situation. Monza could have resulted in a fatality if the Hallow was not there. One would have thought that would have been the warning sign to tighten up the controll on driving standards but it carried on until the first lap of the last race of the season.

    In my eyes, nobody won. Formula One are losers here because they have produced a farcical season of racing. Verstappen has not won because he would not have won if Masi had not given it to him on a platter. And Hamilton has not won because he was racing in circumstances where the odds had been stacked up against him.

    The 2021 F1 SEASON WAS A FARCE!

    If you are a Verstappen fan, then you would say he won by any means possible. If you are not, what happened would leave you wondering if this was right. If it happened now, you can be damn sure it would happen again in the future.
    This all comes back to the Stewarding. If they can't even get a simple thing like track boundaries correct how are they expected to get anything else? It's very straight forward, the while line is the boundary on every corner of the track on every track of the world to which we go. Apply this rule consistently across the board and everybody is clear 100% of the time all the time. But no, we monitor track limits on corner 5 and 7 only, or whatever pick a random number out of your arse corner it is this time around. That they can't even get something as basic as this right just shows that Masi is incapable of doing his job correctly. I mean how hard is this to understand? The white line! I could explain it to my 2 year old and he'd get it.

  12. #20
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2021
    Posts
    6
    Like
    1
    Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    I just registered recently, so hello everybody. I have a couple points to add now to this interested thread.
    1) One of Red Bulls arguments supporting Masi's decision (and let's not hold this against Red Bull) but they suggested that the use of the word 'any' doesn't neccesarily mean 'all' cars can be unlapped. But what this argument fails to acknowledge, is that in the second paragraph, the rule goes on to explain which cars the rule applies to. Therefore, it would not be accurate use of the English language to have used the word 'ALL' in the first paragraph. The rule actually makes perfect sense, this argument by Red Bull (upheld by the stewards) is false.
    2) At the end of the Eifel GP in 2020 Masi when interviewed by the media about use of the safety car in that race, he actually states... and I quote "There's a requirement in the sporting regulations to wave all the lapped cars past..." It is therefore evident to me that he contrived a new interpretation just for the situation at the end of the Abu Dhabi race because for whatever reason the reality of the race was not playing out to the script that he required and therefore hamilton was bang on the money when he said "this race has been manipulated man".
    3) We must now consider the argument that Masi also made after the race that the regs for unlapping cars is to allow the leaders to race. Ok, fair enough with that principle. However, do we honestly believe that the rule was meant to be applied in a way that advantages some back markers, but not others? For example, If you plan to let 5 cars unlap themselves and three cars to not unlap themselves, you are basically saying 'to hell with the race fortunes of the first guy that we don't permit to unlap himself.' Basically unless you let all cars unlap, or none at all, you have to show massive favouritism to the last guy you allowed to unlap, and massive prejudice to the first guy that you say is not permitted to unlap himself. You are not creating a fair environment free of favouritism. Now honestly, do you think all teams believe the race director gets to pick and choose which cars can unlap and which cannot? In the word of Russell "UNACCEPTABLE".

    So... summary of all of this? Arguments in favour of Masi's interpretation of the rules are frankly illogical and simply incorrect, or not in the regulations.

    The drivers drove well, the teams made strategy calls based on the rules and prior precidents, but the race director invented something new which stuffed up Mercedes strategy, and fortunately for Red Bull, Max was able to take full advantage of the Race directors stupidity and incompetence. - Bravo Red Bull, fair game on your part. Unlucky Mercedes, I feel for you. And as for Masi? I think you need to step away from this role. Maybe there is a more suitable position for you elsewhere - and one more thing, you try to be less sarcastic and arrogant and a little more gracious when a team manager calls you out on your blatant incompetence.
    Last edited by squibby; 14th December 2021 at 06:42.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •