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  1. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by joe1888cfc View Post
    Should do away with DRS on the final lap, was unfair on ocon
    Ocon was very deserving of the third step on the podium more than Bottas did, I thought. Bottas did his bare minimum for Mercedes this season. Hamilton praised him as his best teammate. I don't know why he did, because his contribution was not half-decent to what an effective teammate would do. When you think of what Barichello and Irvine did for Schumacher. Or Massa for Raikonnen. Hamiton had to carry most of the weight of the team in the constructors and had to rely on himself in the driver's championship. Much like Verstappen had to do for Redbull and himself.

    Both nos 2 drivers in both teams did a substandard job for their teams, with Bottas doing a slightly better job than Perez.

    If Bottas had done a half-decent job at Jeddah, he should be very closely following the front two ready to pick up any opportunity that presents itself if any of the front two mess up. He should have finished the race in 2nd following Verstappen's 15-second penalty. fifteen seconds is such an eternity in F1 terms which highlights what a crap race Bottas did at Jeddah. If anything, he demonstrates how right Mercedes were for jettisoning him from the team for George Russell.
    Last edited by Nitrodaze; 7th December 2021 at 11:30.
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  2. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bagwan View Post
    Hmmm .
    Where was that "spice" they've been talking about ?

    Too bad Max tagged the wall there , as Lewis was hoping to heroically overtake him to steal the points away in the last laps of the race , miraculously leaving the two gallant racers tied going to the final race of the season , a truly epic finale .

    Maybe there's a way to employ the "magic" button again , to get Max ahead for a while .
    Hmmm .
    That was spicy .

    A quick stop got Max ahead to set up the epic finish , but it got a bit scary there at the DRS line .
    The game seemed a bit pointless for Lewis to become involved in , rather than just speed by as Max was obviously going really slowly .

    It's pretty obvious , even to me , that Merc has more speed now for some reason .
    I guess staying behind him could help imply that Max had any chance at all of re-passing Lewis .

    But , I don't think we've seen Merc pull the magic pin that lets the pedal go all the way to the floor yet .
    I'm not so sure they will have to .



    Epic finale on the way .

  3. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitrodaze View Post
    Verstappen drove this race like he was let out of an asylum. He got away with so many infractions, the stewards did not deal each them as they would normally. So he is encouraged to drive putting other drivers at risk. He overtook off the track, ran Hamilton off the track and brake tested him. If any other driver had done all of these things in one race, they would have been shown the warning flag and subsequently the black flag. All the decisions taken by the steward's office were calculated to have as little impact on him[Versdtappen] as possible.

    I remain adamant that they are on the take. The negotiation of penalty to give Verstappen between Masi and Horner is a very clear indication of that. Rather than apply the rules they invested more time in trying to find a penalty that was acceptable to Redbull.
    And to make matters worse, both he and marko post race were moaning about not being treated fairly etc.
    As you said, back in the day, all his incidents combined would have been a potential black flag.
    If we remember, Grosjean was given a race ban ( and probably should have gotten one for his ridiculous Catalunya 360 move as well in 2020), and that was for cumulative incidents including Spa of that year.
    RBR and Verstappen in particular has gotten away with way too much without any kind of of proper ramifications.
    Masi and the stewards are incompetent, complicit and/or working of the premise of "not interfering with the championship" which is simply wrong, and against their own regulations and rules.

    The thing that scares me most is that Max is eventually gonna do something that will put another driver in serious harm. He has not learned or grown or shown any kind of respect for other drivers.
    I am actually not looking forward to Abu Dhabi because I reckon he is about to do something incredibly dangerous or stupid in his desperation.
    you can't argue with results.

  4. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by truefan72 View Post
    And to make matters worse, both he and marko post race were moaning about not being treated fairly etc.
    As you said, back in the day, all his incidents combined would have been a potential black flag.
    If we remember, Grosjean was given a race ban ( and probably should have gotten one for his ridiculous Catalunya 360 move as well in 2020), and that was for cumulative incidents including Spa of that year.
    RBR and Verstappen in particular has gotten away with way too much without any kind of of proper ramifications.
    Masi and the stewards are incompetent, complicit and/or working of the premise of "not interfering with the championship" which is simply wrong, and against their own regulations and rules.

    The thing that scares me most is that Max is eventually gonna do something that will put another driver in serious harm. He has not learned or grown or shown any kind of respect for other drivers.
    I am actually not looking forward to Abu Dhabi because I reckon he is about to do something incredibly dangerous or stupid in his desperation.
    I fear the same. As talented as he is, he is so dumb I would not be surprised if he takes out Lewis and has the title taken off him afterwards. I hope AD is a straight fight between the two but given what we saw last weekend I can see him taking Lewis out.

  5. #205
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    I agree. He's got no respect for the sport. He's as dumb as MS was.

  6. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bagwan View Post
    Oh , gimme a break , dude .
    He knew what Max was doing . He dropped 3 gears , when both of them should have been racing , instead of playing "silly-beggar" .

    He drove right up behind him , so what do you think his message to Max was at that moment ?
    He was telling Max he wasn't going to pass before that detection line .
    He knew Max's game by then and being so tight that even he , a guy with the reflexes of an adrenaline-soaked cat , couldn't avoid a rapidly slowing car ahead just wasn't smart .

    They were racing to slow down , and the guy behind is always going to hit the guy ahead in that scenario .

    It was a ludicrous moment for F1 .

    Max , for sure , should not have hit the brakes .
    But , his instruction was to slow down and Let Lewis by .

    Lewis should not have been that close behind , but was told that Max would let him by , not that he must pass .

    So , you see , a stupid situation set up by stupid DRS rules .
    Overall I'd agree. If the DRS situation wasn't in play, none of this would have likely happened. Despite what was claimed, I think Lewis was playing the game just as hard, and though the brake check wasn't a legal move, it wasn't wise to tuck in right behind and play the game either. I'm sure the stewards looks at both the drivers telemetry in their decision, and finding one predominantly at fault doesn't mean the other did no wrong.

    They had already scrubbed off a lot of speed playing cat and mouse, and neither wanted to be the first over the DRS line.

  7. Likes: Bagwan (8th December 2021),gm99 (9th December 2021)
  8. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by airshifter View Post
    Overall I'd agree. If the DRS situation wasn't in play, none of this would have likely happened. Despite what was claimed, I think Lewis was playing the game just as hard, and though the brake check wasn't a legal move, it wasn't wise to tuck in right behind and play the game either. I'm sure the stewards looks at both the drivers telemetry in their decision, and finding one predominantly at fault doesn't mean the other did no wrong.

    They had already scrubbed off a lot of speed playing cat and mouse, and neither wanted to be the first over the DRS line.
    I think any driver on the grid would have done exactly what Hamilton did. He was trying to harness the slipstream from Verstappen in order to overtake. That is the standards racing technique. Hamilton wanted Verstappen to drive on fast enough to provide the slipstream, Verstappen wanted Hamilton to pass on the dirty side of the track before the DRS line so that he can receive DRS in order to allow him to overtake Hamilton. They both had a card up their sleeves, but Verstappen got frustrated when Hamilton did not overtake and applied the brakes in anger it seemed. This is where he became a culprit for a penalty.

    Though l initially thought he wanted to take out Hamilton, l believe that was not the case. He simply lost his cool.
    Last edited by Nitrodaze; 8th December 2021 at 09:56.
    Better a witty fool than a foolish wit.
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  9. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitrodaze View Post
    I think any driver on the grid would have done exactly what Hamilton did. He was trying to harness the slipstream from Verstappen in order to overtake. That is the standards racing technique. Hamilton wanted Verstappen to drive on fast enough to provide the slipstream, Verstappen wanted Hamilton to pass on the dirty side of the track before the DRS line so that he can receive DRS in order to allow him to overtake Hamilton. They both had a card up their sleeves, but Verstappen got frustrated when Hamilton did not overtake and applied the brakes in anger it seemed. This is where he became a culprit for a penalty.

    Though l initially thought he wanted to take out Hamilton, l believe that was not the case. He simply lost his cool.

    With them going into a braking zone/corner your slipstream theory doesn't really stack up. There would be far more to be gained from a high speed differential of passing him quickly. Max might have left a cars width but he made it tight to avoid that happening too.

    Agreed on all other points though.

  10. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitrodaze View Post
    I think any driver on the grid would have done exactly what Hamilton did. He was trying to harness the slipstream from Verstappen in order to overtake. That is the standards racing technique. Hamilton wanted Verstappen to drive on fast enough to provide the slipstream, Verstappen wanted Hamilton to pass on the dirty side of the track before the DRS line so that he can receive DRS in order to allow him to overtake Hamilton. They both had a card up their sleeves, but Verstappen got frustrated when Hamilton did not overtake and applied the brakes in anger it seemed. This is where he became a culprit for a penalty.

    Though l initially thought he wanted to take out Hamilton, l believe that was not the case. He simply lost his cool.
    While i agree that other may have done the same thing, slowing down shifting down 3 gears clearly shows the only thing he was trying to do at that moment was stay behind verstappen till after the DRS line.

    Remember, verstappen was obliged to let hamilton pass. It was hamilton refusing to pass and extremely close behind who created the dangerous circumstance in the first place.

    As i said before, the should be a rule that if you are given the chance to pass and you refuse to do so, you lose that chance.

  11. Likes: Bagwan (8th December 2021)
  12. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitrodaze View Post
    I think any driver on the grid would have done exactly what Hamilton did. He was trying to harness the slipstream from Verstappen in order to overtake. That is the standards racing technique. Hamilton wanted Verstappen to drive on fast enough to provide the slipstream, Verstappen wanted Hamilton to pass on the dirty side of the track before the DRS line so that he can receive DRS in order to allow him to overtake Hamilton. They both had a card up their sleeves, but Verstappen got frustrated when Hamilton did not overtake and applied the brakes in anger it seemed. This is where he became a culprit for a penalty.

    Though l initially thought he wanted to take out Hamilton, l believe that was not the case. He simply lost his cool.
    Having seen some of the telemetry from both cars , it seems that , at the very same time that Max applied those brakes , Lewis was on the gas .

    To me , that implies that Lewis , in the moment had decided to pass Max , rather than stay behind .
    What appeared to be "cat-like" reflexes , may have just been an already decided upon move .

    In that fateful moment , it seems that Max was frustrated Lewis wouldn't pass and braked , not knowing exactly how close Lewis was .
    And , Lewis , frustrated that Max slowing down , decided to exit the game a fraction of that moment too late .

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