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  1. #61
    Senior Member F1nKS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitrodaze View Post
    overcrowding on track is typical to all street circuits.
    This is a street circuit, because they choose to build it this way. It is not like they were limited to existing streets they had to adapt - they built it this way out of scratch.

    If tomorrow's race is interesting and fun, then kudos to them. But right now it does not look like it is going to be an interesting race.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by F1nKS View Post
    That is why Hamilton is world champion and Max is not. Hamilton delivered with the pressure on, Max made a critical mistake. Champions handle the pressure, other crumble.

    RB has to change Max gearbox, because if they roll the dice and "hope" there was no damage they are risking a DNF. They are beating Mercedes on this track, so might as well take the penalty and work to minimize the point loss.
    To be fair, l think he may have lost all of his advantage at that point. Even if he got out of that wobble. The chances are, he may have finished 2nd at best. I doubt he had the speed to make much gains on that last stretch to the finish line. It was a valiant effort but not the lap of the year as Horner exaggerates
    Better a witty fool than a foolish wit.
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  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by F1nKS View Post
    This is a street circuit, because they choose to build it this way. It is not like they were limited to existing streets they had to adapt - they built it this way out of scratch.

    If tomorrow's race is interesting and fun, then kudos to them. But right now it does not look like it is going to be an interesting race.
    If it turns out to be a procession of F1 cars, then it would be a snooze fest. I did not see the F2 feature race, l am hoping for great action from the get-go.
    Better a witty fool than a foolish wit.
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  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by F1nKS View Post
    They didn't let him "off the hook", there was no issue to penalize.




    Hamilton was given a fine.
    Actually, Mercedes was given a fine of $25,000 or euros
    Better a witty fool than a foolish wit.
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  5. #65
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    Well it ended poorly for Max, but he sent it with everything him and the RB could throw at it. Reports state that RB has tested the gearbox and it tests good, so they will run it tomorrow.

    Lewis was a bit loose in sector 1, but settled after that.

    Both of them put in some blazing laps, and it was obvious both were really fighting for pole. And with the track layout I can see why. I suspect the race will more or less be a snoozefest. Other than strategy calls or tire issues forcing strange strategy calls, I doubt we will see much action beyond the first few corners. If passes are made it will be the DRS zones, or possibly just due to mistakes of the leading drivers. I hope I'm wrong with the lack of passing, but it seems to me they screwed it up. And it's a shame really, the track looks punishing to drive, and has enough outside reference points to figure out where the drivers are on track. And being that it's not really a street circuit, why add the worst of what street circuits offer? At the best something like Baku in quality of racing, but at least the long straight doesn't seem as insane as Baku when they race.


    I expect to see Lewis get enough gap to be comfortable up front. Whether Bottas can do anything from second remains to be seen, but I'm sure Max will be hounding him waiting for mistakes IF they can follow where it matters.

    I do still expect as some point we will see safety cars or red flags. When tires start going it would be easy for some of those curbs to grab a car or two.


    As for qually, they need to set a VSC style speed system for this track, especially when all cars are out there. There were also several instances where it was obvious drivers slowed in the specific area warned about. I hope they do this before next years race, as it could go bad in a hurry. As for the lights vs flags, something else they need to address IMHO. If the lights aren't taken as a signal, then maybe instead of lights they simply need more flag stand areas and flaggers.

  6. #66
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    In F2 , they lost 7 runners before half way , and finished behind the safety car .

    I'll guess 4 safety car periods in the race tomorrow for the F1 guys .

  7. #67
    Senior Member F1nKS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by airshifter View Post
    Well it ended poorly for Max, but he sent it with everything him and the RB could throw at it. Reports state that RB has tested the gearbox and it tests good, so they will run it tomorrow.
    We learned from Leclerc they can only do some checks, but can't fully test it. I expect we wake up in the morning and when the FIA publishes all their papers before the race and RBR out of caution will take the new gearbox.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by F1nKS View Post
    We learned from Leclerc they can only do some checks, but can't fully test it. I expect we wake up in the morning and when the FIA publishes all their papers before the race and RBR out of caution will take the new gearbox.
    It would be very unfortunate if they have to change the gearbox. I am hoping the gearbox is ok, with the grid starting as qualified. I would be gutted if we miss out on the tussle off the start line at lights out.

    If it starts without gearbox change, Verstappen has the chance to be in the lead before the first corner as the Redbull switches on its tyres faster and better than the Mercedes. But the race would come alive a few laps later when the Mercedes gets heat into their tyres and unleash the full power of their engine. Which would produce the scenario of Hamilton overtaking Verstappen in what might produce the all expected crash.

    If Redbull changes the gearbox, Verstappen would start from 8th or 9th place on the grid. It would thereafter be risky work getting through the fierce midfield on this fast, twisty and wall lined track to get back to podium positions. Third is possible; at best, which may result in the lead in the driver's championship switching hands again. But the constructor's championship would be further out of Redbull's reach.

    This is a crazy track with [likely] lots of crashes and safety cars to bunch up the field, so anything is possible. Including a Verstappen win.
    Last edited by Nitrodaze; 5th December 2021 at 13:00.
    Better a witty fool than a foolish wit.
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  9. #69
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    Horner: Max was pulling 'something very special' out of the bag
    Phillip van Osten
    05/12/2021 at 08:1105/12/2021 at 11:07

    Red Bull team boss Christian Horner says Max Verstappen was on course in qualifying in Jeddah to achieve "something very special" until it all went wrong for the Dutchman in the final corner of his lap.

    During his final flyer in Q3, Verstappen was several tenths up on pace setter Lewis Hamilton, en route to securing pole for Sunday's Saudi Arabian Grand Prix.

    But as the Red Bull charger headed into Jeddah's Turn 27, he locked up the front left, veered wide on the exit of the corner and hit the wall.
    The ruinous mistake likely deprived Verstappen of pole position or at least of a spot on the front row alongside Hamilton. Instead, the Dutchman will start his race on Sunday from P3 on the grid.

    "It was looking like the lap of the year up until that moment," commented Horner.

    "Itís a great shame as it was a mighty, mighty lap and he was pulling something very special out of the bag.

    "Max will be frustrated I am sure as he knows what a good lap it was, but he just needs to put it behind him now."

    https://f1i.com/news/427198-horner-m...f-the-bag.html


    Jos Verstappen: Red Bull pressure has brought out 'another Toto'
    Michael Delaney
    05/12/2021 at 10:0905/12/2021 at 10:11

    Jos Verstappen says Red Bull's successful challenge this season of Mercedes' hegemony in F1 has brought out a different Toto Wolff, one he sees as a sore loser.

    Max Verstappen leads title rival Lewis Hamilton by eight points in the Drivers' standings ahead of Sunday's penultimate round of the F1 world championship, while Red Bull trails the Brackley squad in the Constructors' championship by just five points.

    As the 2021 campaign edges near its epilogue, both outfits are at each other's throat, on and off the track, their respective team principals often engaging in a war of words.

    Verstappen Sr's acrimony towards Wolff was sparked last summer at Silverstone in the wake of the crash suffered by his son after a collision with Hamilton. At the time, the Dutchman took exception with Mercedes celebrating its driver's win while Max was undergoing an assessment in hospital.
    Since that eventful day, the relationship between Jos Verstappen and Wolff has dissolved.

    "Here at Red Bull Racing we are in a good place," said Max Verstappen's father, speaking to De Limburger.

    "There have been conversations with Toto Wolff and I also thought we had a good relationship with him, but the real Toto has shown himself lately.
    "There is no relationship anymore."

    Asked if he considered Wolff to be a Ďbad loserí, Verstappen replied: "You could say that, yes.

    "Mercedes was, of course, leading for years. Now they are cornered for the first time and you see another Toto.
    "Itís a shame, but thatís how you get to know people."

    https://f1i.com/news/427202-jos-vers...ther-toto.html


    Max Verstappen is set to avoid a grid penalty for the Saudi Arabian Grand Prix, RacingNews365.com understands.
    Co-author
    Dieter Rencken

    Max Verstappen looks set to avoid taking on a new gearbox and being hit with a subsequent grid penalty for the Saudi Arabian Grand Prix, RacingNews365.com understands.

    Verstappen crashed out of Saturday's qualifying session at the Jeddah Corniche Circuit while pushing for pole position, leaving him third on the grid, behind Mercedes pair Lewis Hamilton and Valtteri Bottas.

    Given the angle of impact, concerns were raised over Verstappen's freshly-fitted gearbox which, if replaced, would earn him a five-place grid penalty and put him back to eighth position.

    However, the unit is understood to be in working order, meaning a replacement is not required for Sunday's race.

    https://racingnews365.com/verstappen...x-grid-penalty


    MAX VERSTAPPEN
    Verstappen puzzled by crash: I braked at the same point
    Max Verstappen says he braked at the same point for the final corner during both of his Q3 runs at the Saudi Arabian GP.

    Author Nigel Chiu

    Max Verstappen has revealed that he braked at the same point for the final corner during both of his Q3 runs in Saudi Arabia, despite crashing at the end of qualifying.

    Verstappen was set to take pole position, having gone fastest in Sector 1 and 2 on his second Q3 run, but crashed at the last turn before coming to a halt.

    It handed pole position to title rival Lewis Hamilton who led a Mercedes 1-2 at the new Jeddah Corniche Circuit.

    "I arrived there and my feeling was to brake at the same point," Verstappen told media, including RacingNews365.com. "But I had a little lock up and I still tried to finish the lap.

    "I clipped the wall on the exit, so I couldn't continue. It's extremely disappointing. Of course, we had a good car in qualifying, and everything seemed to be coming together.

    https://racingnews365.com/verstappen...the-same-point

  10. #70
    Senior Member truefan72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitrodaze View Post
    I think they aspired to have an in-city street circuit to boost tourism. Much like Baku, Abu Dhabi, to name a few. In-city street track is the thing nowadays. It is a very unique layout. Different to any previous tracks and to any typical race tracks. This is why l think it is a great addition to the calendar. We would get used to it, much like we did for Baku when it came along. Mainly for its quirky layout, its fast nature and its challenges to the drivers and teams.
    Baku should have been their template. To me it is the best city track. This Jeddah track is way too tight and from the look of things, virtually impossible to overtakeÖeven with 3 drs zones. We shall see


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