2021 - Race 21 Saudi Arabia

[Nitrodaze]

With them going into a braking zone/corner your slipstream theory doesn't really stack up. There would be far more to be gained from a high speed differential of passing him quickly. Max might have left a cars width but he made it tight to avoid that happening too.

Agreed on all other points though.

But that was the point, to slipstream into the corner ahead and force Verstappen to either stay behind at the apex or squeeze him onto the kerbs. Either way, he may have got ahead. He used that technique twice during the race.

[Nitrodaze]

While i agree that other may have done the same thing, slowing down shifting down 3 gears clearly shows the only thing he was trying to do at that moment was stay behind verstappen till after the DRS line.

Remember, verstappen was obliged to let hamilton pass. It was hamilton refusing to pass and extremely close behind who created the dangerous circumstance in the first place.

As i said before, the should be a rule that if you are given the chance to pass and you refuse to do so, you lose that chance.

You forget Hamilton had no idea what Verstappen was doing. He did not receive the information of Verstappen giving up the lead until the instant after the crash. There is no way he would have known what Vewrstappen was thinking. He did what he felt was the cautious thing to do, l felt.

But one thing remains clear, both men wanted to benefit from the situation somehow. I can see how a slipstream after that DRS line would be greatly beneficial for Hamilton. One scenario is that he may have used the slipstream to pass Verstappen at the corner. And use the DRS to put some distance between himself and Verstappen on the straight after the corner. So you can see why Vderstappen was frustrated that he has been caught in a potentially tricky situation. His only real way out was to force Hamilton to overtake before the DRS line so that he can have the DRS for himself. the frustration developed into anger as the DRS got ever so closer and he was running out of options.

So he jumped on the brake with the hope of either forcing Hamilton to pass or disrupting him in such a way as to give him a chance to get out of the tricky situiation.

[denkimi]

You forget Hamilton had no idea what Verstappen was doing. He did not receive the information of Verstappen giving up the lead until the instant after the crash. There is no way he would have known what Vewrstappen was thinking. He did what he felt was the cautious thing to do, l felt.

Well, he slowed down 3 gears and kept it right under verstappens rear wing. I can think of any reason to do that except for trying to stay behind untill they passed the drs line.

Even though hamilton might have not been informed by radio, he must have had a pretty good idea of what was happening. He might not have expected verstappen to be stupid enough to actually brake, but he must have known verstappen would have to let him pass at some point. And he must have known verstappen would most likely try to do that near some drs line.

But one thing remains clear, both men wanted to benefit from the situation somehow. I can see how a slipstream after that DRS line would be greatly beneficial for Hamilton. One scenario is that he may have used the slipstream to pass Verstappen at the corner. And use the DRS to put some distance between himself and Verstappen on the straight after the corner. So you can see why Vderstappen was frustrated that he has been caught in a potentially tricky situation. His only real way out was to force Hamilton to overtake before the DRS line so that he can have the DRS for himself. the frustration developed into anger as the DRS got ever so closer and he was running out of options.

So he jumped on the brake with the hope of either forcing Hamilton to pass or disrupting him in such a way as to give him a chance to get out of the tricky situiation.

that seems pretty clear, no?
verstappen wanted hamilton to pas him before the line so he would get drs, and hamilton didn't want to pas before the line to get drs. max was indeed frustrated, got stupid and braked. but hamilton was equally careless by staying this close so he had no time to react.

but that caused a situation where both were driving very slowly where they should have been flatout, which creates a dangerous situation, especially at a blind track like jeddah. i feel there needs to be some rule to regulate this kind of overtakes, to avoid such situations.

[Zico]

But that was the point, to slipstream into the corner ahead and force Verstappen to either stay behind at the apex or squeeze him onto the kerbs. Either way, he may have got ahead. He used that technique twice during the race.

They were both going far too slow for the slipstream to have even been a thought for Lewis.. and besides, there is nothing to gain from a slipstream in the braking zone, in fact ideally you want maximum aero not a disturbed wake.

I think you must mean pass him with as high a speed differential as possible to stop him staying close through the corner and onto the straight.... with DRS.

[gm99]

You forget Hamilton had no idea what Verstappen was doing. He did not receive the information of Verstappen giving up the lead until the instant after the crash. There is no way he would have known what Vewrstappen was thinking. He did what he felt was the cautious thing to do, l felt.

Lewis is not an idiot. He saw Max go off and gain an unfair advantage, he knows you're supposed to give the position back in those circumstances, then he sees Max slowing down on the back straight. What else would Verstappen have been doing - snapping pictures for his Instragram account? Lewis just didn't want to go past Max at this point because - again being no idiot - he knew fully well he would be repassed owing to the DRS zone that was coming up (as was proven to be the case when Verstappen finally did let him pass a few laps later).

[Nitrodaze]

Well, he slowed down 3 gears and kept it right under verstappens rear wing. I can think of any reason to do that except for trying to stay behind untill they passed the drs line.

Even though hamilton might have not been informed by radio, he must have had a pretty good idea of what was happening. He might not have expected verstappen to be stupid enough to actually brake, but he must have known verstappen would have to let him pass at some point. And he must have known verstappen would most likely try to do that near some drs line.


that seems pretty clear, no?
verstappen wanted hamilton to pas him before the line so he would get drs, and hamilton didn't want to pas before the line to get drs. max was indeed frustrated, got stupid and braked. but hamilton was equally careless by staying this close so he had no time to react.

but that caused a situation where both were driving very slowly where they should have been flatout, which creates a dangerous situation, especially at a blind track like jeddah. i feel there needs to be some rule to regulate this kind of overtakes, to avoid such situations.

I don't see your point. Hamilton would have expected Verstappen to give the place back just after the corner if he intended to do so. when he didn't, it was natural to expect that they are still racing until it is decided by the stewards. Verstappen suddenly slowing close to the DRS line of course would freak Hamilton out. Any driver in their right mind knowing how Verstappen go about racing would approach cautiously as well. You are asking Hamilton to be stupid in the circumstances as it is your expectation. He was entitled to stay behind, he has no obligation to overtake. So l don't get your argument at all.

[Nitrodaze]

Lewis is not an idiot. He saw Max go off and gain an unfair advantage, he knows you're supposed to give the position back in those circumstances, then he sees Max slowing down on the back straight. What else would Verstappen have been doing - snapping pictures for his Instragram account? Lewis just didn't want to go past Max at this point because - again being no idiot - he knew fully well he would be repassed owing to the DRS zone that was coming up (as was proven to be the case when Verstappen finally did let him pass a few laps later).

My point exactly. The second time around, Hamilton passed because he probably felt safe to pass without any potential for collision during the pass. I doubt he would have been worried too much about Verstappen retaking the lead with DRS. He knew, he had the pace to reclaim the lead later on. Though l admit, he would have preferred to do pass once and be done with it

[Nitrodaze]

Check out this interesting podcast about the Jeddah race. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHdCONQep4k