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  1. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zico View Post
    Yes, well thats an argument worth its own debate..I thought you were talking solely about today. They have been doing it for a while now so in the interest of continuity, they have to keep doing it.
    I suppose negotiating punishment with the offender is now a norm too.
    Better a witty fool than a foolish wit.
    William Shakespeare

  2. Likes: truefan72 (5th December 2021)
  3. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitrodaze View Post
    The problem was the stewards did not inform Mercedes until the crash had occurred. Hamilton was not expecting Verstappen to suddenly slow down with him already in his slipstream
    That is what mercedes claimed, but they showed the message to verstappen to slow down on tv half a lap before. So it's not the stewards or redbull, it was mercedes who didn't tell hamilton.

    If Hamilton hasn't had the message, than i can't blame him for it. That would make it a race incident. But mercedes must have known about it, so that makes it their fault.

    But weird to give verstappen a penalty when he tried to do what was asked from him.

  4. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by denkimi View Post
    That is what mercedes claimed, but they showed the message to verstappen to slow down on tv half a lap before. So it's not the stewards or redbull, it was mercedes who didn't tell hamilton.

    If Hamilton hasn't had the message, than i can't blame him for it. That would make it a race incident. But mercedes must have known about it, so that makes it their fault.

    But weird to give verstappen a penalty when he tried to do what was asked from him.
    You have a point. It would become clear soon. It would be unfair to punish Verstappen if that is the case.
    Better a witty fool than a foolish wit.
    William Shakespeare

  5. #134
    Senior Member Whyzars's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitrodaze View Post
    I suppose negotiating punishment with the offender is now a norm too.

    If both teams agree on outcome I don't have a problem with it.

    Having said that, I don't think this is over...

  6. #135
    Senior Member Tazio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by truefan72 View Post
    Masi is a joke. Max break tested for sure. This thing is a joke


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    That has to be the silliest f1 race I've ever seen. I think Masi's head expolded!
    Last edited by Tazio; 5th December 2021 at 20:08.
    May the forza be with you

  7. Likes: truefan72 (5th December 2021)
  8. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitrodaze View Post
    You have a point. It would become clear soon. It would be unfair to punish Verstappen if that is the case.
    If Hamilton really hasn't received the message on time nobody should be penalised.

    And ifind it hard to believe he would crash into the back on purpose, so it looks very much like mercedes was just too slow.

  9. #137
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    I just heard Hamilton did not get the message that Verstappen was going to give the place back until after they had collided. I would think Mercedes probably got the message late too.
    Better a witty fool than a foolish wit.
    William Shakespeare

  10. Likes: truefan72 (5th December 2021)
  11. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by denkimi View Post
    If Hamilton really hasn't received the message on time nobody should be penalised.

    And ifind it hard to believe he would crash into the back on purpose, so it looks very much like mercedes was just too slow.
    He probably was penalized because he could have pulled to one side rather than slow on the racing line.
    Better a witty fool than a foolish wit.
    William Shakespeare

  12. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitrodaze View Post
    I suppose negotiating punishment with the offender is now a norm too.
    In a red flag situation well yes, I guess it is and so they have to do the same if it happens again.

    As I said.. Its really not so different from during a normal race. The team have the option to give the place back if told to by the Stewards... and if they choose not to they get a 5 sec penalty.
    In this case the race was stopped so there really has to be a negotiation. If they didn't give him it, Max would be disadvantaged compared to anyone else it has happened to in a normal race with no red flag. Its a pretty clear and sensible thing to do.. and with continuity IMO.

  13. Likes: Bagwan (5th December 2021)
  14. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whyzars View Post
    If both teams agree on outcome I don't have a problem with it.

    Having said that, I don't think this is over...
    I agree with that too. But unfortunately, that was not what happened. Masi negotiated with Redbull and told Mercedes how it was going to be based on the agreement with Redbull. It was not a three-way discussion with all parties saying how they felt about it.
    Better a witty fool than a foolish wit.
    William Shakespeare

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