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  1. #751
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndyRAC View Post
    I read that as that's the most they think they'd ever get. Four is fine if we see 3-4 cars per manufacturer, and plenty of privateers; meaning we see 15-20 Rally 1 cars. As he says, six or seven can become unsustainable as they can't all win - and some end up pulling out. We saw that in the early/mid 00's.

    I'm wondering how long the WEC manages to keep all their new manufacturers in the next few years.
    They (WEC) have BOP and fixed development to prevent a spending war which should equalise the cars (or manipulate who wins) so each of the teams should get a fair crack of the whip and their moment to shine. I’m sure they are very conscious that they will need all the teams to ‘succeed’ at some point to keep them all.
    I’m a fan of endurance racing so I’m keen to see how this all pans out over the next few years.

  2. #752
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    Quote Originally Posted by doubled1978 View Post
    They (WEC) have BOP
    What's BOP please?

  3. #753
    Senior Member Eli's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WRCStan View Post
    What's BOP please?
    Balance of Performance if I’m not mistaken.
    Only you know your true potential.
    This year we rally #ForCraig

  4. Likes: AndyRAC (1st July 2022),WRCStan (1st July 2022)
  5. #754
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eli View Post
    https://dirtfish.com/rally/why-the-f...ers-is-enough/

    FIA as in FIA rally director Andrew Wheatley thinks 4 is the sweet spot, thing is, for now we aren't seeing any interest from any other manufacturers to join the fray.
    I think I changed my mind about this after talking on this forum. I think 3 is just fine.
    What I Really want to see is more privateers or costumer teams having the $$ to run Rally1 Cars (since all this new concept was to make it cheaper. Or was it a lie? haha).
    Im Not sure toyota and hyundai are on the "Hey, heres lots of rally1 cars! Rent them!", but I really wish they were, like Msport. Loved to see Serderidis trying it out and scoring points!

  6. #755
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndyRAC View Post
    I'm wondering how long the WEC manages to keep all their new manufacturers in the next few years.
    I feel that theres always something about "To sell LMP1 (lmh? lmdh? gtp? hyoercar? what is the name??) cars to other teams" (costumer programs?) in most of the articles about the new manufacturers joining WEC/IMSA So Im imagining WEC/IMSA will not have huge problems on that. Like TCR racing, where the cars are all out for the teams to run by their own. I mean, I HOPE this new LMP1 class is being build on this idea. It feels like this. These TCR / Rally2 / GT3 platforms are a huge success that could really be "copied" in LMP1
    Last edited by lmmjvss; 1st July 2022 at 21:01.

  7. #756
    Senior Member Eli's Avatar
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    I feel 4 cars from 4 different manufactures running 3 cars each is the sweet spot, ever since Citroën left the sport at the end of 2019, to me at least it feels lacking because you have Hyundai & Toyota fighting it out & M-Sport lagging behind, in 2019 we had a championship front runner in pretty much each team so even Citroën with their not so competitive car had Ogier to fight the title for, Toyota had Tänak & Hyundai Neuville. Now you have Neuville & Tänak in one team & Rovanperä & Evans in the other, would be way more interesting imho if they were separated and also that way the team would be more evenly matched and we wouldn't get that dominance from Toyota, because as reliable as there car may be, you still need drivers to win in it.
    Only you know your true potential.
    This year we rally #ForCraig

  8. Likes: AnttiL (1st July 2022)
  9. #757
    Senior Member cali's Avatar
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    The problem is not the lack of manu teams but the lack of privateers. And that's purely a cost issue

    Sent from my DN2103 using Tapatalk

  10. Likes: AndyRAC (2nd July 2022)
  11. #758
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    Quote Originally Posted by focus206 View Post
    Yes, the key is that all should be somewhat competitive. If a manufacturer is not competitive, it will just leave. Another reason why it's bad for the championship that Toyota is so dominant.
    I don't think we'll ever see the 7 manufacturers from the early 2000's (even though Skoda, Hyundai and Mitsubishi WRC would see the podium through binoculars) until something drastic will change in a more or less far future, like a switch to electric.
    Yes, to get even 4 manus now, something needs to drastically change.
    At the moment I see only two possible options
    :
    - EV switch
    Or
    - Rally2/"privateer" switch (AKA 1980s Group A switch)

    Maybe somebody sees other options?

    Historically since WRC intro at the end of 1990s WRC has been slow and conservative with changes though, so don't expect much.
    (Rally1 hybrid is a necessary incremental change that should have happened 3 years ago, certainly nothing drastic)

  12. Likes: AndyRAC (2nd July 2022)
  13. #759
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    I remember when Subaru & Suzuki pulled the plug in December 2008 - and we were left with Citroen & M-Sport Ford. The FiA President was more concerned about the recent withdrawal of Honda from F1 and sorting that out. One hopes the current incumbent, Ben Sulayem can bang heads together and sort something.

    Currently, very few manufacturers are interested in being in the WRC; costs are still too high, and the value simply isn't there.......Cut costs and increase value. Easy to say, but harder to do.

    Is there a better sound than that of Porsche engined Flat-6 ???

  14. #760
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndyRAC View Post
    Currently, very few manufacturers are interested in being in the WRC; costs are still too high, and the value simply isn't there.......Cut costs and increase value. Easy to say, but harder to do.
    Please specify "manufacturers".
    My take is: can all the current Rally1 manufactures considered as a true manu? Without a doubt M-Sport is not, it only has manu backing from Sport but at the same time M-Sport is a huge contributor to the business model of WRC by providing cars for other classes apart from Rally1. Probably Toyota Gazoo WRC is in the same boat here and could be considered as an apart legal entity affiliated with Toyota Gazoo Europe (or has that changed recently?) but not providing any other cars besides Rally1. Hyundai Motorsport based at Alzenau is besides Rally1/2 cars for WRC also providing racing cars for WTCR, TCR and ETCR, so they have a broad business model

    What I am trying to find out here is: what is the aim of the current manufacturers in WRC. Is the for the business model or is it for a broader sense? Could that be an example for other so called manufactures to step in?

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