2021 - Race 14 Itallian GP at Monza

**pantealex** · 14th September 2021, 06:04

Originally Posted by nitrodaze

i don't think there is anyone on the current grid who has won races with three teams; redbull, renault and mclaren. What a racer ricciardo is. Except alonso of course; renault, mclaren and ferrari

kimi

**Nitrodaze** · 14th September 2021, 06:08

Originally Posted by pantealex

kimi

YES of course Mclaren, Lotus and Ferrari

**Nitrodaze** · 14th September 2021, 06:11

I watched the incident again and it is quite clear that it was fortuitous that the halo was introduced before Verstappen joined the F1 grid. This incident would have definitely killed Hamilton if it wasn't on the car. There is no doubt about that. Verstappen is a very dangerous driver.

The fact that he did not check if Hamilton was hurt shows he doesn't really care what happens to the other driver either. Ruthless and callous, a very bad combination

**Average Sim Racer** · 14th September 2021, 06:37

Originally Posted by Nitrodaze

We can say similar things for Verstappen and any driver on the grid. Try to say something original.

That's the point. You are making him out to be the worst driver on the grid. Pringles.

**denkimi** · 14th September 2021, 09:37

Originally Posted by Nitrodaze

Ha ha ha LOL

You are so predictable

I'm wondering why i keep trying to have a decent discussion with fanboys like you.

Its always ends up the same, a waste of time because they are stuck in their religious loop of blaming everybody else for everything.

**denkimi** · 14th September 2021, 09:39

Originally Posted by Average Sim Racer

That's the point. You are making him out to be the worst driver on the grid. Pringles.

No point in arguing with fanboys like him. Unfortunately not all such morrons stick with football to express their blind hate.

**Nitrodaze** · 14th September 2021, 11:45

Originally Posted by denkimi

No point in arguing with fanboys like him. Unfortunately not all such morrons stick with football to express their blind hate.

There is no hate in my posts buddy. You on the other hand are quite entertaining with your responses.

I call it as l see it regardless of the driver. I cannot say that for you .

**Nitrodaze** · 14th September 2021, 11:49

Originally Posted by Average Sim Racer

That's the point. You are making him out to be the worst driver on the grid. Pringles.

No that is not the point you were making. You were attacking the victim of the crash. There is hard racing and there is sheer recklessness. And what we saw on sunday at the Italian grandprix was reckless by Verstappen. And you have to be very biased not to see it as it was.

**Nitrodaze** · 14th September 2021, 12:37

Ok let's talk seriously about this crash. I honestly think it was a racing incident. But the incident was avoidable with a little commonsense. A majority of drivers during the race have yielded to the car ahead to get through that corner safely. Verstappen is fully entitled to challenge Hamilton going into the corner. The main reason why Verstappen is blamed for the crash was his error of judgement in not knowing when to back down and fight at the next corner. Everyone else including Hamilton took to the escape path around the sausage kerb in corners when the space available to the attacking car approaching corners have become unrealistic. Hence, why the stewards indicated that Verstappen was predominantly to blame for the crash. The wording is no different to how they saw the Silverstone crash. Thus, there is some consistency here.

The problem with this crash was that it was potentially fatal. Which has escalated the risk factor of the championship battle. It has reached a point now where the FIA, F1M and both teams fighting for the championship need to objectively look at the situation and dial down the level of risk reached so far.

**Average Sim Racer** · 14th September 2021, 21:14

Originally Posted by Nitrodaze

No that is not the point you were making. You were attacking the victim of the crash. There is hard racing and there is sheer recklessness. And what we saw on sunday at the Italian grandprix was reckless by Verstappen. And you have to be very biased not to see it as it was.

I don't take kindly to being lied about or victim-shaming.

The recklessness from Verstappen is no worse than the recklessness from Hamilton, especially at a similar age. That was the point. That was not denying recklessness. I'm not prepared to argue. My position is clear as is my conscience.

I feel it is a racing incident given the stewards' previous rulings and track limits and two drivers unwilling to compromise and both being reckless. I would have to be biased from previous poor decisions to want to penalise an over-taking driver.

I already stated in my opinion it is a different kettle of fish to blame an over-taking driver with momentum for being squeezed into a sausage kerb by a slower car with new tyres coming from the pit lane. The car coming from the pits has to be extra careful in that situation as they are the one re-joining the race track and causing the obstacle at a tight corner with a hazard off-track.

I feel no differently to this than the racing incident of Bottas and Russell in which again Russell was blamed as the over-taking driver despite Bottas being slower and purposefully discarding his line in poor conditions and forcing Russell dangerously off track with a careless blocking move to the right under breaking.

My genuine position is the car in front has more responsibility to leave space at tight over-taking corners and the FIA are not caring about protecting the line of the over-taking driver.

If you are arguing that it is reckless to over-take when there is no clear and obvious gap then Hamilton ought to have been black flagged and had grid places dropped for Silverstone, with Mercedes paying for the damages to Red Bull's car.

In this incident Mercedes have a point to raise with the FIA about sausage kerbs ruining their car unfairly and endangering their driver.

If you argue Max has a responsibility to not go over the sausage kerb then in my opinion you also have to argue Lewis has a responsibility to respect the sausage kerb as a dangerous track limit for Max.

Lewis has had decisions in the past at Monza, for example when Leclerc pushed him off track and got a warning, but the difference is it wasn't in the wet or with sausage kerbs so it wasn't as reckless as when the Mercedes cars have done it recently.

Again, I am not denying the recklessness or victim shaming. I am recognising the scale of danger in context. Bottas and Lewis deserved warnings, perhaps more for being reckless in defensive situations where there was even more danger off-track than what Leclerc did.