[WRC] Rallye Monte Carlo 2022

[Japé]

We need to remember that Loeb also lost some time during the Friday because of technical issues.

[dimviii]

Yep, Ogier has own complex for Loeb. Always focusing on him.

Since we have the forever Ogier vs Loeb debate....

For me Ogier has better results (with 3 different manus and complete domination over everyone including Latvala in VW).
Loeb could have possibly gotten as good results, but "sadly" for him the competition was rather thin during some of his career and he never had to change teams.

On a personal level I agree that Loeb doesn't have same excuses for everything like Ogier.

Loeb didnt loose championship from anybody.Ogier lost.
Loeb beat Ogier with same car while cleaning ALL gravel rallies.
Loeb won championships against World Champions like Sainz,Mc Rae,Makkinen,Kankkunen,while at Ogiers era wasnt any World Champion.So Loeb had much stronger opposition not Ogier.
About different manufacturers Loeb just answered today if he was able to win with other car except citroen.
Even if he hadnt win today,why he had to change team when he had a good car/team/salary?
Its like to ask Ogier when competing at VW to change team.

[becher]

Loeb didnt loose championship from anybody.Ogier lost.
Loeb beat Ogier with same car while cleaning ALL gravel rallies.
Loeb won championships against World Champions like Sainz,Mc Rae,Makkinen,Kankkunen,while at Ogiers era wasnt any World Champion.So Loeb had much stronger opposition not Ogier.
About different manufacturers Loeb just answered today if he was able to win with other car except citroen.
Even if he hadnt win today,why he had to change team when he had a good car/team/salary?
Its like to ask Ogier when competing at VW to change team.

Couldn't agree more, the winning with different teams/manufacturers complex many fans have is far from relevant in the real world.

[mknight]

The competition for Loeb was arguably less, because he was a level above everybody.

Nope. For 4 years ( 2009-2012) there were 2 teams. Out of these Loeb's teammates were basically not allowed to fight him. (Sordo Spain, Ogier etc..).

Personally I think Loeb could achieve same type of results like Ogier, it's just that there was no opportunity.

[NOT]

Yep, Ogier has own complex for Loeb. Always focusing on him.

Since we have the forever Ogier vs Loeb debate....

For me Ogier has better results (with 3 different manus and complete domination over everyone including Latvala in VW).
Loeb could have possibly gotten as good results, but "sadly" for him the competition was rather thin during some of his career and he never had to change teams.

On a personal level I agree that Loeb doesn't have same excuses for everything like Ogier.

I bet it was traumatizing seeing Loeb beating Mcrae in the same car..

i suggest therapy instead of creating stories about the greatness of Ogier winning championships against a bunch of nobodies...

Ogier is nothing... he was nothing and will be forgotten...

i cannot imagine this atmosphere will ever be recreated for Ogier even if his house is a few yards away

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[seb_sh]

Loeb won championships against World Champions like Sainz,Mc Rae,Makkinen,Kankkunen,while at Ogiers era wasnt any World Champion.So Loeb had much stronger opposition not Ogier.

Don't agree with this one, Loeb before him didn't allow any other world champions, altough some were close, so kinda not Ogier's fault. I think overall if you really look at the details the competition was similar but they were both 1 level above their contemporaries.

For me the 1 doubt that remains is that Ogier won titles with more manufacturers. Other than that Loeb won with more generations of car (Xsara, C4, DS3, and now rally wins with C3 and Puma). And now in this direct fight where Ogier had all the advantages (knows the team, participated in developing the car, has recent form in WRC, had some rest) Loeb comes from finishing 2nd in the Dakar, takes a shower goes to a new team and is challenging him.

And there is a final plus for Loeb, that is not Ogier's negative but it's just that Loeb was first. Loeb changed the game, he had the efficient driving style, pragmatic championship approach and was fast on all surfaces. Each individual trait is not new but I think he was the first to have all of them.

[meh]

Loeb vs Ogier - there are too many variables to compare who is better over all time, and for me it does not matter. They are both masters with their own way and own style, one likes more one style, another likes more another style.

This time in Monte is win for Loeb. We can have endless and pointless discussion "but Ogier had puncture", there are so many "if-s" in rally, that we can overlook all rallies and stages if we want. At the end, in the protocol, the winner is Loeb. Simple as that.

Like it was mentioned before - we just should be happy to be able to observe this battle between masters.

... and to be honest, after Monte, it gives taste for other rally wins and for entire championship - "you are the best after 2 kings". Yes, I know, that those kings would both be master everywhere and Monte is kind of home event for both. But still...

Hopefully Hyundai is also getting their problems kind of sorted and we will see more tight battles in the future.

[mknight]

Loeb didnt loose championship from anybody.Ogier lost.
Loeb beat Ogier with same car while cleaning ALL gravel rallies.
Loeb won championships against World Champions like Sainz,Mc Rae,Makkinen,Kankkunen,while at Ogiers era wasnt any World Champion.So Loeb had much stronger opposition not Ogier.
About different manufacturers Loeb just answered today if he was able to win with other car except citroen.

This is funny, a bit try hard aren't you?

The best argument is that Ogier didn't beat any world champions, kinda hard when the guy that took previous 9 left.

Anyway if you want something to fume about Loeb didn't get better than 3rd with i20.

[Rally Hokkaido]

Maths lesson will be fun for the kids this week. If a Ford Puma travelling at 100kph crosses the line.... who is leading the championship?

Or she could use this one: If a 21 year-old from Finland finishes 4th in a race, how old would the Frenchman who won be?

[wia5958]

Wonder if danos was in the car what the times would of been surely talking a few seconds per stage. Full commitment and trust in him. I don't think this would be a talking point Loeb would of easily had the win. But then we wouldn't of came to a final stage showdown and witness ogier choke under the pressure of having to attack Loeb a situation in his career I don't think he has ever found himself in. Really really wanting to beat another competitor and he choked