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  1. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnttiL View Post
    But in 2022, they want to be back at winning rallies, if not titles, and they are ready to put money in a driver who can deliver.
    Emphasis added. Wanting is easy but it gets you only so far. Does M-Sport have resources to be competitive in 2022 and fulfil those wants? I fear not. If Breen goes with them for full-time drive, he is either blinded by his own ambition or knows something we do not know.

  2. Likes: AnttiL (21st September 2021),cali (21st September 2021),mknight (21st September 2021),pantealex (21st September 2021),TWRC (21st September 2021)
  3. #152
    Senior Member AnttiL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mknight View Post
    I am sure you are also seeing the very mixed communication from them.

    On one hand we get what you described saying they want a top driver and 3 cars to be able to fight in manu champs.

    Then they fail to hire any of last years rally winners (did they even try or was that just PR talk?). And lately we get extensive interviews on how Greensmith has shown he is on "WRC level" and last days a story on how Fourmaux and Greensmith are on same level.
    To me it seems the communication changed after Tänak and Neuville signed their contracts. After that they ditched talks of titles and instead started talking positive about Fourmaux and Greensmith, because it was their reality.

    So PR talk for sponsors is one thing, real actions are something else. Worst case they enter next season with Breen, Fourmaux and Greensmith and a meh car that maybe manages 2-3 podiums. (basically 2019 style).

    Neither Greensmith nor Fourmaux can be expected to beat any of Rovanpera/Evans/Ogier/Lappi/Neuville/Tanak/Sordo on speed in 2022. How many rallies can Breen be expected to beat (almost) all of them? 3 maybe? (SWE, FIN, EST, no Ypres next year), maybe fewer without road position advantage. That's in my eyes a long way from the announced ambition levels.
    It's good to remember all three teams will have completely new cars. The balance between them could be anything. We cannot assume Toyota is as dominant as it is now, we cannot assume Hyundai being as good as it was in early 2017, we cannot assume M-Sport being as bad as they are now. It will all be a surprise.

    And another thing to mix in is how the drivers will adapt to the new driving style of the new cars, which will be different to the WRC cars and different to R5's. And things like Hyundai on tarmac on other drivers than Neuville...likely that will all change.

  4. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnttiL View Post
    To me it seems the communication changed after Tänak and Neuville signed their contracts. After that they ditched talks of titles and instead started talking positive about Fourmaux and Greensmith, because it was their reality.



    It's good to remember all three teams will have completely new cars. The balance between them could be anything. We cannot assume Toyota is as dominant as it is now, we cannot assume Hyundai being as good as it was in early 2017, we cannot assume M-Sport being as bad as they are now. It will all be a surprise.
    There is a huge gap from say Evans, Breen and Forumaux team to Breen, Fourmaux, Greensmith.
    If they really had the money (and not just PR talk) there are at least 5 available drivers better than Greensmith.

    Yes the balance between teams can change, but in MSports case to suceed both the car and 2/3 drivers have to massively improve to even be competetive.

  5. #154
    Senior Member AnttiL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mknight View Post
    There is a huge gap from say Evans, Breen and Forumaux team to Breen, Fourmaux, Greensmith.
    But would that win against Neuville-Tänak or Ogier/Lappi-Rovanperä? (assuming cars are equal)

  6. #155
    Senior Member er88's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonkka View Post
    Emphasis added. Wanting is easy but it gets you only so far. Does M-Sport have resources to be competitive in 2022 and fulfil those wants? I fear not. If Breen goes with them for full-time drive, he is either blinded by his own ambition or knows something we do not know.
    They've effectively spent the best part of 2years off in the WRC. Treading water with little to no development and a lack of testing, while taking money off pay drivers like Greensmith or drivers with sponsorship like Fourmaux. They started work on the Puma early in lockdown, and have had the car running early and testing a lot (and it does pass the eye test - I know, not always accurate). I'd be surprised if Msport DON'T have a car capable of challenging the Yaris or I20, it can't be worse than the current Fiesta which has fallen so far behind on development.

    I don't agree with some that somehow Msport will build a better car than Toyota or Hyundai, but that's different from being competitive. Why on earth wouldn't Breen jump at the chance of a full season with them? Hyundai can't/ won't offer him a full season so it's a no brainer. Especially if it's a two year deal and he is being paid. He needs full seasons now and deserves the chance other drivers have had.

  7. #156
    Senior Member AnttiL's Avatar
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    I believe M-Sport is able to make a winning car, as they've managed earlier with new regulations. Just because they've lagged behind 2-3 years doesn't mean they don't put in proper effort for the new car. And like I said earlier, the tables turn here, everyone gets a new car so it's an equal starting point.

  8. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnttiL View Post
    But would that win against Neuville-Tänak or Ogier/Lappi-Rovanperä? (assuming cars are equal)
    If MSport had 2-3 competetive drives they have 2-3 times bigger chance than if they only have Breen.
    If they are/were serious and not just PR talk that is.

    ---

    Similarly for Breen it's a big risk to go to MSport (and even more so if he is the only competetive driver).
    Just look at Tanak, going to manu champ winners as the fastest driver and world champion. Now he is the last full time manu driver! MSport is now a semi-manu underfunded team with terrible recent results even with decent drivers (Suninen Lappi).

    We dunno what is/was possible at Hyundai. Especially if Adamo leaves...
    but at Toyota Latvala now says Ogier will do 4 rounds. 7? rounds sound much better that full season at MSport to me. If say Breen beat Lappi in Finland.

  9. #158
    Senior Member Andre Oliveira's Avatar
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    Breen is not a rally winner.

    I would prefer Lappi, Mikkelsen, Sordo, Meeke,… and then Breen.

  10. #159
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    The hater boner towards Ford and M Sport is off the charts... WRC as we know it will be dead in 2 years if they quit... Albeit, a R5 based, European centered WRC ala WTCR won't be worse than the current situation.

  11. #160
    Senior Member er88's Avatar
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    My (potential) problem with Msport is there's middle ground between signing one of the big 4 drivers, plus Breen & having Fourmaux as 3rd driver, to having a lineup like Breen/ Fourmaux/Greensmith (which is probably what it's going to be).

    Fourmaux should be the 3rd driver, have Breen as your main man and try to help him fulfill his potential, but any other driver than Greensmith is better. Mikkelsen could get a full season, they could've signed up Lappi or Andreas early this year and let them share the testing load with Fourmaux (rather than having Matt Wilson do it). If not Mikkelsen or Lappi, they could've fully trusted Suninen, or they could even go down the PR route of bringing oldies like Loeb/ Meeke etc back to do a few events each for extra publicity and some good stages times/results. Even someone like Paddon has been completely forgotten about (although that's understandable when he's the other side of the world).

    Would be very underwhelming if Greensmith is in the main team for the full season. He will pay for a car anyway, just give him a 4th one. Mikkelsen would drive for free more or less at this rate (although even he has mentioned in the past he has some budget to help if needed). There are drivers around that can still make up a nice/ interesting team at Msport next year.

  12. Likes: skarderud (21st September 2021)

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