Silly Season 2022

[AndyRAC]

You need to look again; WEC has new regs in 2022, and 2023 sees the 100 year anniversary of Le Mans; currently only Toyota, however Peugeot, Glickenhaus, Alpine, then Porsche, Audi, Ferrari will join. How long they stay is another matter - but they've all taken the plunge.

For the WRC, 4-5 manufacturers is the ideal number, with 3-4 cars per team, plus affordable cars for privateers; so you get 15-20 top class R1 cars. Is that really too much to ask? If it is, then there's a problem with the new rules/regs.

Put it this way, I was far more optimistic at the start of 1997, than I will be next year.

[seb_sh]

Like Andy said WEC is having a big turnaround after the previous regulations became unattractive (but even those had some glory years). The full list of manufacturers joining is as follows:
2022: Toyota, Glickenhaus, Peugeot, Alpine (using old car)
2023: all from 2022 except Alpine plus: Ferrari, ByKolles, Porsche, Audi, Cadillac, BMW, Acura/Honda (BMW and Acura probably only in North America)
2024: Lamborghini, Alpine (new car)

WTCR: Hyundai, Lynk & Co, Honda, Cupra, Audi (also TCR cars racing competitively in other championships or previously in WTCR are available from: Renault, VW, Lada, Opel, Alfa Romeo, Peugeot)

F1: Recently introduced budget cap regulations and change of commercial approach means that teams are not pruely a money black hole, in fact the Mercedes team was already profitable since last year. Also new engine regulations in 2026 made so it's easier for new manufacturers to join.

I would like to add GT3, created when GT1 racing was dying, over the years has had about 50 models from about 20 manufacturers and today hase some of the most interesting endurance races with multiple teams/cars as potential winners and a healthy private team entry.


In my opinion rallying organisers and promoters have been making mistakes since the early 2000's, are always on the back foot, reacting and being late to the party. The current WRC2 regulations are a perfect example of a missed opportunity due to idiotic rules. The manufacturers can be fickle yes but the blame is mostly on WRC not the teams.

[RS]

Mikkelsen with Toksport in Monte and likely all of next year:

https://dirtfish.com/archive/mikkels...e-next-season/

[AndyRAC]

Like Andy said WEC is having a big turnaround after the previous regulations became unattractive (but even those had some glory years). The full list of manufacturers joining is as follows:
2022: Toyota, Glickenhaus, Peugeot, Alpine (using old car)
2023: all from 2022 except Alpine plus: Ferrari, ByKolles, Porsche, Audi, Cadillac, BMW, Acura/Honda (BMW and Acura probably only in North America)
2024: Lamborghini, Alpine (new car)

WTCR: Hyundai, Lynk & Co, Honda, Cupra, Audi (also TCR cars racing competitively in other championships or previously in WTCR are available from: Renault, VW, Lada, Opel, Alfa Romeo, Peugeot)

F1: Recently introduced budget cap regulations and change of commercial approach means that teams are not pruely a money black hole, in fact the Mercedes team was already profitable since last year. Also new engine regulations in 2026 made so it's easier for new manufacturers to join.

I would like to add GT3, created when GT1 racing was dying, over the years has had about 50 models from about 20 manufacturers and today hase some of the most interesting endurance races with multiple teams/cars as potential winners and a healthy private team entry.


In my opinion rallying organisers and promoters have been making mistakes since the early 2000's, are always on the back foot, reacting and being late to the party. The current WRC2 regulations are a perfect example of a missed opportunity due to idiotic rules. The manufacturers can be fickle yes but the blame is mostly on WRC not the teams.

Nail on head!! GT3 is probably the best motorsport around; great races, cars, drivers, series, etc Consistently delivers entertainment.

As for rallying, I've consistently said that they (the WRC) continually make the wrong choices - and never learn.

[Franky]

But the luxury other championships have is that majority of the brands are premium or luxury. If you think of the cars in rallying, they are representing the lower price end of road cars.

In public image perspective, it reminds me of this meme that surfaced after Gumball3000 went through Estonia.

[mknight]

Mikkelsen with Toksport in Monte and likely all of next year:

https://dirtfish.com/archive/mikkels...e-next-season/

He said he doesn't want to pay to drive at MSport previously.

Maybe it's also that he doesn't want to use a lot of money "blind" without seeing the car performance. (See how paying for drive worked for Suninen this year).

If Puma is good he will then maybe pay for 2-3 drives on the rounds he doesn't do WRC2.

[WRCStan]

I don't follow those championships, forgive me I'm just trying to learn not argue with anyone - is mentioning GT3 the same as saying there is Peugeot, Proton, Renault, Skoda, VW, Abarth in non-Rally1 rally?

How many are actually building their own cars too? I see manufacturers in Extreme-E and Formula-E who are just sponsoring teams who fabricate a few chassis. Mercedes will make a buck out of the other non-manufacturers on the grid they don't own. If you'd like more teams like 2C Competition, fair enough.

It's that muddy conversation again: manufacturers, manufacturer teams, constructors, independent teams, privateers and the interests and incentives of each.

[seb_sh]

I don't follow those championships, forgive me I'm just trying to learn not argue with anyone - is mentioning GT3 the same as saying there is Peugeot, Proton, Renault, Skoda, VW, Abarth in non-Rally1 rally?

How many are actually building their own cars too? I see manufacturers in Extreme-E and Formula-E who are just sponsoring teams who fabricate a few chassis. Mercedes will make a buck out of the other non-manufacturers on the grid they don't own. If you'd like more teams like 2C Competition, fair enough.

It's that muddy conversation again: manufacturers, manufacturer teams, constructors, independent teams, privateers and the interests and incentives of each.

No worries. GT3 is designed as a customer category. The manufacturer or an approved preparation company designs and buillds the car. The cars are balanced by the various championships so in theory you can be competitive with any car (not perfect but there are usually many different makes fighting for wins). No full works teams allowed altough most manufacturers have some semi-works teams. So I guess it would be similar to Rally2.

[focus206]

As mentioned, GT3 *could* be considered equivalent to Rally2 in rallying (with GTE category being equivalent to Rally1), but it's worth mentioning that GT3 has its own championships and prestigious races in which GTE doesn't race (like Spa 24h or Nurburgring 24h) and it's in a much healthier state than GTE, while being few seconds per lap slower.
I personally like GT3 much more, huge fields of cars, great racing and sensible BoP (as opposed to GTE or WTCR, in which a certain car model could be far ahead everyone else in one race and the slowest car in the next).

[AnttiL]

https://twitter.com/MSportLtd/status...32746276003842

Greensmith, Andersson, Fourmaux and Coria visiting Sparco for measurements for 2022 seats...