2021 Race 11 - Hungary

[Fortitude]

Sebastian Vettel disqualified from Hungarian Grand Prix as Lewis Hamilton promoted to second
By George Flood
1st August 2021

https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/for...n-b948701.html


Vettel finishing position and points reinstated
August 2, 2021 · by thejudge13

https://thejudge13.com/2021/08/02/ve...ts-reinstated/


Aston Martin will appeal Sebastian Vettel's Hungarian Grand Prix disqualification having been stripped of second place to a fuel infringement... meaning Lewis Hamilton's title lead could be reduced
• Aston Martin will appeal Sebastian Vettel's disqualification from the Hungary GP
• The German finished second but saw that taken away due to a fuel infringement
• Lewis Hamilton saw his championship lead increase as a result of the decision
• If it was overturned Max Verstappen would close the gap on the British driver
By Philip Duncan, Pa F1 Correspondent
Published: 09:01, 6 August 2021 | Updated: 09:17, 6 August 2021

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...ng-second.html


Vettel disqualification hearing to take place on Monday
2021 Hungarian Grand Prix
Posted on
6th August 2021, 15:436th August 2021, 15:47 | Written by Keith Collantine

https://www.racefans.net/2021/08/06/...ace-on-monday/

[airshifter]

Well, Binotos suggestion sounds a reasonable one to me..
The temptation for reckless driving/foul play... for F1 to become 'destruction derby' is exorbitantly high with how things currently stand.

Sure the Stewards final decision on who was at fault and therefore liable for the bill would likely be debated to death on here, probably even more than usual, but even if they got 75% of them right it would still be a lot fairer than the triple/quadruple whammy of having someone take out both of a teams cars, losing them many valuable points then having a sizeable chunk of their seasons capped budget go towards repairing the damage which consequently has a knock on effect of reduced development and therefore season long performance, as well as grid penalties for going over engine/gearbox etc quotas... for the guilty driver to only suffer a single 5 position grid penalty for the next race and a couple of penalty points.

Yeah, maybe there is a better and fairer way of doing it.. but it's not a bad one in my book.

I don't know that I would trust the FIA to decide who pays myself, as we have enough controversial calls as it stands now.

My primary first concern would just be not adding insult to injury by applying a penalty to a team that has already lost points and increased costs for an accident they didn't create. Though costs would vary somewhat team to team, I'm sure they could come up with some general average number for major components such as engines, battery stores, etc. And it would be easy to ensure that no team gains advantage by introducing new major components, just by assigning them a life cycle max or something.

[Zico]

I don't know that I would trust the FIA to decide who pays myself, as we have enough controversial calls as it stands now.

My primary first concern would just be not adding insult to injury by applying a penalty to a team that has already lost points and increased costs for an accident they didn't create. Though costs would vary somewhat team to team, I'm sure they could come up with some general average number for major components such as engines, battery stores, etc. And it would be easy to ensure that no team gains advantage by introducing new major components, just by assigning them a life cycle max or something.

Fair points.The FIA probably also have more than enough on their plates without having to attend numerous hearings and appeals after every race weekend.
In one hand I'd like to see a real deterent for reckless/careless driving with the guilty drivers being punished rather than the unfortunate victims merely being punished a little less. However, I do concede that could also have an adverse effect on the spectacle and be detrimental to the racing with drivers potentially playing it too safe, avoiding going for the gaps in case it didn't work out in their favour. Your idea is probably the better one over all, it equalises just about enough while still maintaining an acceptable balance on the effect.

[Fortitude]

Aston Martin petition for review date to reverse Vettel disqualification announced
‎06‎ ‎August‎ ‎15‎:‎45

The FIA have confirmed Aston Martin's video conference to try and overturn Sebastian Vettel's disqualification will take place on August 9.

Aston Martin's video conference with the FIA will take place on August 9 as they seek to reverse the stewards' decision to disqualify Sebastian Vettel from the Hungarian Grand Prix.

The FIA were not able to take a one litre fuel sample after the race so Vettel lost his second place behind race winner Esteban Ocon. Aston Martin have lodged a requested a right to review, the same process Red Bull undertook prior to Hungary for the controversial lap one incident between Lewis Hamilton and Max Verstappen.

https://racingnews365.com/aston-mart...tion-announced


Lewis Hamilton faces title setback as Aston Martin appeal Sebastian Vettel penalty
Aston Martin will appeal Sebastian Vettel's Hungarian Grand Prix disqualification, which would cut Lewis Hamilton's title lead.

By Claire Cottingham
PUBLISHED: 01:02, Sat, Aug 7, 2021 | UPDATED: 01:19, Sat, Aug 7, 2021

https://www.express.co.uk/sport/f1-a...FIA-penalty-F1


ESTEBAN OCON
Ocon: I'm a bit sad for Vettel

‎06‎ ‎August‎ ‎08‎:‎55
The Alpine driver admits motorsport can be cruel and does not like to see his rivals getting disqualified as Aston Martin lodged an appeal against the stewards' decision to disqualify Sebastian Vettel from the Hungarian Grand Prix.
Author Nigel Chiu

https://racingnews365.com/ocon-im-a-bit-sad-for-vettel


Ralf Schumacher Has No Sympathy for Vettel, Aston Martin in F1 Fuel Controversy
Sebastian Vettel forced to give up podium finish at Formula 1 Hungarian Grand Prix over fuel amount in car.

BY GLOBAL MOTORSPORTS MEDIA
Aug 6, 2021

Former Formula 1 driver Ralf Schumacher says that Aston Martin is wasting its time by appealing Sebastian Vettel's disqualification from the Hungarian Grand Prix for having a too small amount of fuel left in the tank at the end of the race.
FIA scrutineers were only able to extract a third of the required 1 liter of fuel from Vettel's Aston Martin-branded car after he finished a sensational second last Sunday. Given Aston Martin's right to appeal, Vettel's car was impounded with Aston Martin insisting that more than a litre of fuel remains safely on board.

https://www.autoweek.com/racing/form...1-controversy/


Motor racing-F1 stewards to assess Aston Martin's case on Aug. 9
Sebastian Vettel
6 August 2021, 7:00 pm

Formula One stewards will assess on Monday Aston Martin's request for a review of Sebastian Vettel's disqualification from second place at last Sunday's Hungarian Grand Prix.

The governing FIA said it had scheduled a video hearing for Aug. 9 with the Aston Martin team manager and a maximum two other witnesses.

If the stewards accept grounds for review, another hearing will be held.

Aston Martin has also appealed the disqualification, but that may not be necessary depending on the outcome of any review.

The team said on Thursday they had discovered "significant new evidence" which had been previously unavailable to them.

https://uk.sports.yahoo.com/news/mot...821ZKysRmliL58

[Bagwan]

The only hope for AM is that one of the scavenger pumps failed , leaving enough fuel in the tank and piping to get the required amount for the sample , I am guessing .
Otherwise , what would be the point of any appeal ?

[airshifter]

The only hope for AM is that one of the scavenger pumps failed , leaving enough fuel in the tank and piping to get the required amount for the sample , I am guessing .
Otherwise , what would be the point of any appeal ?

That's the way I see it as well. But if they are really crafty maybe they set it up so when the car stops on track and "runs out" of fuel there is still at least one liter in the tanks left for the sample.

I still don't think the appeal will fly either way, but this is Formula One...

[Fortitude]

BREAKING NEWS: ASTON MARTIN’S PETITION FOR REVIEW DISMISSED
Sad times for Sebastian Vettel.
By Niya Sinckler

Aston Martin’s appeal was reviewed by the FIA regarding Sebastian Vettel’s disqualification at the Hungarian Grand Prix.
After discussing the case via video teleconference, F1 stewards dismissed Aston Martin’s petition for a review under Article 14 of the FIA International Sporting Code for reasons of admissibility.

Article 14 states, “14.1.1 in Competitions forming part of an FIA Championship, cup, trophy, challenge or series, or of an international series, a significant and relevant new element is discovered which was unavailable to the parties seeking the review at the time of the decision concerned, the stewards who have given a ruling or, failing this, those designated by the FIA, may decide to re-examine their decision following a petition for review.”

Read MORE here;

https://www.formulanerds.com/news/br.../?nowprocket=1


SEBASTIAN VETTEL
Aston Martin fail in review bid to overturn Vettel's Hungarian GP disqualification
Author Nigel Chiu

The stewards have rejected Aston Martin's right of review so Sebastian Vettel will remain disqualified from the 2021 Hungarian Grand Prix.

https://racingnews365.com/aston-mart...squalification


Aston Martin: FIA dismisses team's Hungarian GP right to review
Michael Delaney09/08/2021 at 19:0309/08/2021 at 20:25

Aston Martin has failed to convince the FIA stewards to accept its right to review Sebastian Vettel's exclusion from the Hungarian Grand Prix in which the German driver finished P2.

Vettel finished the race second on the road, but during a post-race fuel sample check, the scrutineers were unable to extract the 1-litre minimum amount of fuel from the tank of the German driver's Aston Martin AMR21, as mandated by the regulations, with only 0.3-litres being pumped out.

The Silverstone-based outfit argued for a right to review based on "significant new evidence relevant to the sanction which was unavailable to it at the time of the FIA stewards' decision".

However, the "new" evidence in question - data that demonstrated that there had been a fuel pump failure that prevented the extraction of the minimum 1-litre amount of fuel - was dismissed by the stewards in Monday's video conference hearing as the data was available after the race, although it could not be processed on site in a timely manner.

Aston Martin was initially convinced that 1.4-litres of fuel remained in the tank of Vettel's car at the end of the race.

But the team eventually concluded upon further analysis that "an analysis of various data carried out after August 1, 2021 showed that there was actually less than 1 litre remaining at the end of the race due to an initially unnoticed malfunction in the fuel system."

The stewards crucially assumed "the fact that there was not enough fuel in the tank", while "the question of what caused the situation was left out of consideration".

For the stewards, only the shortfall in fuel was therefore considered.

"Therefore, for the assessment of whether or not the 1-litre requirement was broken, it does not make a difference why there was less than 1 litre," read the FIA's report.

"There may be a couple of explanation why at the end of a race the remaining amount is insufficient. In any case, it remains the sole responsibility of the Competitor to ensure that the car is in conformity with the regulations at all times."

Aston Martin still retains a right to appeal the penalty handed by the Hungarian Grand Prix stewards to the team. But the team has yet to decide whether to exercise that right or abandon the case altogether, perhaps a wiser course of action in light of Monday's decision by the FIA stewards.

Read MORE here;

https://f1i.com/news/414661-aston-ma...to-review.html


Aston Martin
Aston Martin to consider "full appeal" after FIA denies Vettel disqualification review
Sam Hall
Monday 9 August 2021 20:36

Aston Martin team principal Otmar Szafnauer has stated the team will now "consider our position" with regard to a "full appeal" after the FIA denied a review of Sebastian Vettel's disqualification.

Vettel was disqualified from the Hungarian Grand Prix after finishing second to Esteban Ocon when only 0.3-litres of fuel could be extracted from his car in post-race scrutineering.

https://www.gpfans.com/en/f1-news/68...cation-review/


Red Bull chief Helmut Marko lays into Lewis Hamilton with Sebastian Vettel penalty claim
Red Bull chief Helmut Marko thinks the penalties are inconsistent in F1 following incidents with Lewis Hamilton and Sebastian Vettel.
By Luke Gardener
PUBLISHED: 18:32, Mon, Aug 9, 2021 | UPDATED: 18:32, Mon, Aug 9, 2021

F1 must look at the penalties they give out, according to Red Bull chief Helmut Marko. It is after Sebastian Vettel was disqualified from the Hungarian Grand Prix and Lewis Hamilton received a 10-second time penalty for a crash with Max Verstappen at Silverstone prior.

Vettel had a storming drive for Aston Martin to come home in second but did not have enough fuel to be tested by the FIA.

The German was therefore disqualified from the race.

Hamilton collided with Verstappen at the British Grand Prix which left the Red Bull star out of the race but the world champion only received a 10-second time penalty.

The Briton went on to win the race after he managed to catch and pass Ferrari driver Charles Leclerc.

“Vettel was disqualified because there was not enough fuel left in the tank. So we have to talk about the relation of the penalties,” Marko told Speedweek on penalties in F1.

“It is clear why Vettel almost ran out of petrol, because a normal race had been calculated and then he simply used more in the fight with Ocon – no driver saves petrol in this situation.

“Where is the relation there compared to Hamilton’s offence?

Read MORE here;

https://www.express.co.uk/sport/f1-a...-claim-F1-news

[Bagwan]

That's the way I see it as well. But if they are really crafty maybe they set it up so when the car stops on track and "runs out" of fuel there is still at least one liter in the tanks left for the sample.

I still don't think the appeal will fly either way, but this is Formula One...

If they are considering an appeal now , they really must think there is more fuel in there .
An appeal would be expensive , but , maybe the points are worth it .

[Nitrodaze]

If they are considering an appeal now , they really must think there is more fuel in there .
An appeal would be expensive , but , maybe the points are worth it .

I think the question is, why should the driver be punished for the error of the team? Vettel did not make any mistakes here, he just drove the car he was given. As far as the fuel test goes, the other Mercedes powered cars are not having a similar problem and they have been doing this for years now. Hence, there is no excuse really. It is just a shame that Vettel has suffered the most for a race that he drove brilliantly in a car that has infringed FIA protocols.

[truefan72]

I don't know that I would trust the FIA to decide who pays myself, as we have enough controversial calls as it stands now.

My primary first concern would just be not adding insult to injury by applying a penalty to a team that has already lost points and increased costs for an accident they didn't create. Though costs would vary somewhat team to team, I'm sure they could come up with some general average number for major components such as engines, battery stores, etc. And it would be easy to ensure that no team gains advantage by introducing new major components, just by assigning them a life cycle max or something.

How about they stop giving Ferrari that $100M special payment even though they were caught cheating and the FIA tried to cover it up and use that money as pot for repairs for all teams, given that they can prove the actual cost of repairs instead of the fake sums they give, even though their all own their own factories and the costs are parts are already redundancies given that they are only remanufacturing their own designed parts etc.