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  1. #131
    Member joe1888cfc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by F1nKS View Post
    You have no sense of humor at all do you.

    https://youtu.be/nDoER71XnNo
    Lol

  2. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by F1nKS View Post
    You should not be fat shaming people.
    Fat people should be shamed as much as possible. Nobody gets better by accepting and promoting their unhealthyness.

  3. #133
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    Fallout from this weekend continues - Leclerc engine was ruined, so he will be facing a grid penalty likely later this year for a power unit change.

    Bottas and Stroll penalty should have been larger. They only got 2 penalty points also.

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  5. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitrodaze View Post
    Maybe it was just racing.
    Alonso said after the race he fought Hamilton hard for Max and Ocon. So, there is no love lost for Hamilton.

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  7. #135
    Senior Member N. Jones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by F1nKS View Post
    I wonder if this seals Bottas fate?

    Yeah it definitely wasn't a very good effort on Mercedes part today. Hamilton did a remarkable comeback drive after his opening mistake.

    Red Bull wasn't to smart on strategy either. They still thought they were racing Hamilton and didn't recognize they were racing the rest of the field until it was to late.

    First half of the season was entertaining. Hopefully the 2nd half will be just as entertaining. But Red Bull is in trouble. They will be taking a lot of grid penalties in the future for having to replace different stuff from all the accidents the last 2 weeks.
    Oh no, this seals his contract for next season. He took out all of Lewis' rivals in one move!
    " Lady - I'm in an awful dilemma.
    Moe - Yeah, I never cared much for these foreign cars either."

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  9. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by F1nKS View Post
    Fallout from this weekend continues - Leclerc engine was ruined, so he will be facing a grid penalty likely later this year for a power unit change.

    Bottas and Stroll penalty should have been larger. They only got 2 penalty points also.
    This is the type of thing I really hate about the budget restrictions. Damage done to cars that were clearly not the car can come back to hurt the team. In clear cut cases I think it would be nice if they had a provision that allows them to make major repairs without the penalties.

    I really don't know if there would be a proper way to hand the penalties out to the cars at fault, since it's the luck of the draw in some respects as to the long term costs to the teams involved. It sucks when other drivers are taken out, but in many cases the car that caused things is taken out as well.

    Though I will admit I hate to see when driver X causes a mess and takes out other cars, and in the end benefits from it in the race while drivers Y and Z retire or lose a lot of positions.

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  11. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by airshifter View Post
    This is the type of thing I really hate about the budget restrictions. Damage done to cars that were clearly not the car can come back to hurt the team. In clear cut cases I think it would be nice if they had a provision that allows them to make major repairs without the penalties.

    I really don't know if there would be a proper way to hand the penalties out to the cars at fault, since it's the luck of the draw in some respects as to the long term costs to the teams involved. It sucks when other drivers are taken out, but in many cases the car that caused things is taken out as well.

    Though I will admit I hate to see when driver X causes a mess and takes out other cars, and in the end benefits from it in the race while drivers Y and Z retire or lose a lot of positions.
    From my point of view this is a non runner from the start. Crashes have always been part of F1 from the outset- if a team like RBR hasn't budgeted enough for the damages they have sustained then their accountants need to do a better job next year. The same with every other team up and down the grid. Budget caps have been in the making for 15 years. If in that time they haven't thought to budget for crashes then really that's on them. Crashes are part of F1 making other teams pay for your repairs, no matter what the reasoning, is opening Pandora's box and, regardless of the solution, I can imagine litigation and court cases following.

    If you compete in F1 and can't handle some damage to your car every now and then, you're in the wrong sport.
    Last edited by The Black Knight; 4th August 2021 at 17:38.

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  13. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Black Knight View Post
    From my point of view this is a non runner from the start. Crashes have always been part of F1 from the outset- if a team like RBR hasn't budgeted enough for the damages they have sustained then their accountants need to do a better job next year. The same with every other team up and down the grid. Budget caps have been in the making for 15 years. If in that time they haven't thought to budget for crashes then really that's on them. Crashes are part of F1 making other teams pay for your repairs, no matter what the reasoning, is opening Pandora's box and, regardless of the solution, I can imagine litigation and court cases following.

    If you compete in F1 and can't handle some damage to your car every now and then, you're in the wrong sport.
    I didn't state anything about having the team causing the damage to pay for it, simply provisions within the budget to allow repairs not allowed by current rules. FWIW, the only time I could even think of placing the burden on the car causing the damage would be if it was intentional and deliberate beyond any doubt.... then maybe.

    With the restrictions on the power plants, I don't see why a team would be forced to run older units or face penalties if the damage is not caused by them. Depending on luck, someone could have major components taken out of service early in the life cycle, and with only three of many of these major engine components to be used through the season, they get double or triple shafted. I think at a bare minimum they should be allowed to replace that component without penalty. It's just rubbing salt in the wound for an incident that they didn't create.

    I'm fine with budget caps and it making the teams closer in terms of performance. But with the noose tightening more over the next few years, it would suck to see a team lose out in the WCC for reasons beyond their control. This would once again hurt the small teams more than the big teams, as the small teams really need every point in the WCC to get through the coming years.
    Last edited by airshifter; 7th August 2021 at 16:51.

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  15. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by airshifter View Post
    I didn't state anything about having the team causing the damage to pay for it, simply provisions within the budget to allow repairs not allowed by current rules. FWIW, the only time I could even think of placing the burden on the car causing the damage would be if it was intentional and deliberate beyond any doubt.... then maybe.

    With the restrictions on the power plants, I don't see why a team would be forced to run older units or face penalties if the damage is not caused by them. Depending on luck, someone could have major components taken out of service early in the life cycle, and with only three of many of these major engine components to be used through the season, they get double or triple shafted. I think at a bare minimum they should be allowed to replace that component without penalty. It's just rubbing salt in the wound for an incident that didn't create.

    I'm fine with budget caps and it making the teams closer in terms of performance. But with the noose tightening more over the next few years, it would suck to see a team lose out in the WCC for reasons beyond their control. This would once again hurt the small teams more than the big teams, as the small teams really need every point in the WCC to get through the coming years.
    Now that is an interesting thought. The budget was reduced from $175m to $145 for this 2021 season. I think particularly because the teams are essentially reusing the 2020 car to a large extent. I have a feeling that teams that have suffered crashes this season would push back to raise the budget back to $175m for next season. The experiment of the budget cap of this 2021 season has shown that $145 might not be enough in situations where a team suffers a higher number of crashes than the average of a typical season.

    It is hard to imagine that a dispensation spend for exceptional cases would be introduced, as it would muddy the water of accounting. Besides, every team, would be quick to find a reason why they should be allowed to spend more. Then there is the problem of consistency of applying it fairly across the big teams and the smaller teams. A spending band seem more reasonable; $145m to $175m. Even that reintroduces the problems of having teams spending at the top end of the band and having better performance from it. And smaller teams that are only able to spend up the minimum budget.
    Last edited by Nitrodaze; 6th August 2021 at 19:02.
    Better a witty fool than a foolish wit.
    William Shakespeare

  16. #140
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    Well, Binotos suggestion sounds a reasonable one to me..
    The temptation for reckless driving/foul play... for F1 to become 'destruction derby' is exorbitantly high with how things currently stand.

    Sure the Stewards final decision on who was at fault and therefore liable for the bill would likely be debated to death on here, probably even more than usual, but even if they got 75% of them right it would still be a lot fairer than the triple/quadruple whammy of having someone take out both of a teams cars, losing them many valuable points then having a sizeable chunk of their seasons capped budget go towards repairing the damage which consequently has a knock on effect of reduced development and therefore season long performance, as well as grid penalties for going over engine/gearbox etc quotas... for the guilty driver to only suffer a single 5 position grid penalty for the next race and a couple of penalty points.

    Yeah, maybe there is a better and fairer way of doing it.. but it's not a bad one in my book.
    Last edited by Zico; 6th August 2021 at 19:58.

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