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  1. #231
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bagwan View Post
    I especially like the lectures on proper racing .

    But , I get confused when I'm right sometimes and then other times I have no idea what real racing is all about .

    Me too Baggie, I guess we are all extremely privileged to have our resident expert here to keep us all in check.

  2. #232
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Black Knight View Post
    I knew Max wouldn't back out. He's not that kind of driver and has not learned that living to fight another day is sometimes the better option. Hamilton has learned this which is why he backed out in Spain and Imola but one driver cannot have it is way the entire time. But you've summed up on your post exactly why it is a racing incident, both drivers could have done things differently to avoid the incident.

    Also, on Brundles quote


    Brundle has contradicted himself in that sentence. You can't absolve Max of blame and then say he could have left a little more space, although I would change that to he "should" have left more space, just like LeClerc did even though Hamilton was further behind into Copse at that point than he was on Max. That's the difference between a driver using (LeClerc) and not using his brain (Max).
    I really don't see that as a contradiction. You can always leave more room, or even back out of it completely and let the other driver have the corner.

    But we will just have to agree to disagree on the matter regardless of what others think. I can appreciate that your opinion differs from mine and you have a right to it, and that you aren't one of the people engaging in the childish personal attacks but rather debating the issue at hand.




    Quote Originally Posted by Bagwan View Post
    Here's my opinion on that .
    Airshifter is one of the most un-biased posters we have here .

    You are not .
    Thanks Baggy. I guess through the years I've seen people get too wrapped up with the idol worship approach, and it's never suited me. I can't think of a single driver who hasn't got it wrong on plenty of occasions, and quite a few of them were considered some of the greatest. Some screwed it up less than others, but they all screwed it up at some point.

    And though IMHO a mistake, I didn't think it was intentional on the part of Lewis. And it was a far shout from Schumacher putting the Hakk into the grass at 190 mph, even when the rule back then more or less allowed it. But in a similar sense, any risky move should weigh the potential consequences for both drivers, and 180 mph certainly isn't slow.

    But.... much like yourself I'm not going to attack anyone over a difference of opinion.

  3. #233
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    I give up!
    Better a witty fool than a foolish wit.
    William Shakespeare

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  5. #234
    Senior Member truefan72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bagwan View Post
    Max left room for Lewis .
    That is why Lewis got the penalty .
    That my friend is laughable.
    Max did not leave room for Hamilton and that is why they crashed.
    Look at Palmers F1 video :41sec in as to what happened at the same corner on Saturday in the sprint race.
    This is Saturday:

    Hamilton was on the outside and Max on the inside.
    Max clear as day drifted his car towards the outside to not give Hamilton any room
    Notice that Hamilton was slightly ahead, but chose not to turn in but sensibly back out.
    He didn't squeeze max, and decided to stay wider even into the entrance of corpse.
    but Max still veered towards the outside uncompromisingly.

    This Sunday:

    on Sunday Hamilton was on the inside and Max on the outside.
    Hamilton did not move towards the outside to aggressively intimidate Max, as was the case on Saturday by Max.
    didn't hear a peep from you folks about that. Or the fact that he further away from the "apex" that you cguys were blaming Hamilton for being on Sunday.
    Hamilton stayed on the inside and Max. Verstappen had like 2 cars widths of room on the outside, which he could have moved to but chose to move towards the inside like nobody was there. All the while knowing fully that Hamilton was well in his inside.
    He tried to be uncompromising, Hamilton refused to cede (probably what Max thought he was going to do) and there was a coming together.
    That's is why most folks understood this to be a racing incident at worst.
    I really don't understand what the 20 pages of back and forth is about, if it simply isn't Hamilton hate.
    Anytime Hamilton is involved, the hate brigade is quick to jump on it.
    Asking for rule changes, special laws and wholesale changes to the regs to "punish" Hamilton.
    I never heard a peep about this when Max or anyone else was involved in similar incidents.
    Those were racing incidents, but Hamilton...it's something else. I wonder what?
    I suggest many on here take their time and actually reflect on what is motivating their comments. Because they are beyond unbalanced.
    on to Hungary
    Last edited by truefan72; 22nd July 2021 at 00:15.
    you can't argue with results.

  6. #235
    Senior Member truefan72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by airshifter View Post
    I really don't see that as a contradiction. You can always leave more room, or even back out of it completely and let the other driver have the corner.

    But we will just have to agree to disagree on the matter regardless of what others think. I can appreciate that your opinion differs from mine and you have a right to it, and that you aren't one of the people engaging in the childish personal attacks but rather debating the issue at hand.






    Thanks Baggy. I guess through the years I've seen people get too wrapped up with the idol worship approach, and it's never suited me. I can't think of a single driver who hasn't got it wrong on plenty of occasions, and quite a few of them were considered some of the greatest. Some screwed it up less than others, but they all screwed it up at some point.

    And though IMHO a mistake, I didn't think it was intentional on the part of Lewis. And it was a far shout from Schumacher putting the Hakk into the grass at 190 mph, even when the rule back then more or less allowed it. But in a similar sense, any risky move should weigh the potential consequences for both drivers, and 180 mph certainly isn't slow.

    But.... much like yourself I'm not going to attack anyone over a difference of opinion.
    You are kidding right?
    As Nitrodaze said; "I give up"
    This is bizarro world stuff.
    Being accused of Hero worship while simultaneously worshiping St. Max like he could do no wrong?
    Dismissing all evidence to the contrary, including most professionals, other drivers and team managers?
    To me this is like someone punching me in the face and accusing my head of getting in the way of their fist.
    "Why is your head near my swinging fist in the first place. Why did you not duck down. or move your head to the left?
    I mean I was aiming for your head, was trying to scare you but you didn't move. Now my finger is broken."
    LMAO
    Yeah
    Last edited by truefan72; 21st July 2021 at 23:25.
    you can't argue with results.

  7. #236
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    Redbull and Max Verstappen fans are going to implode on this one!

    These were the same individuals who found it ok when Max had played bumper karts with Charles in Austria GP 2019. Oh how the times have change!

  8. #237
    Senior Member F1nKS's Avatar
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    Lewis got a penalty just because the drivers and teams have asked the FIA to stop drivers from "getting their elbows out". With the penalties they handed out last week and with Russell getting the 5 sec penalty for the slight tap on Sainz, they had to do something on Hamilton.

    Warrick was on a f1 podcast last week and they asked him about the complaints about the stewards - he said they are calling it like the drivers have asked them to. He said if the drivers want them to give more leeway, they would. He said what they are saying in public (let them race) is much different than what they are saying in private.

  9. #238
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    HOMEMOTORSPORTFORMULA-ONE
    New twist as evidence emerges to lay blame over Verstappen crash

    Sports from Fox Sports
    July 22nd, 2021 5:58 am
    In a new twist, Formula 1 expert Martin Brundle has revealed Red Bull believes it has the data to prove Lewis Hamilton entered Copse corner on the first lap faster than any other during the Grand Prix.
    Max Verstappen accused seven-time world champion Hamilton of being “dangerous, disrespectful and unsportsmanlike” following their collision at Silverstone on Sunday.

    https://www.foxsports.com.au/motorsp...38e75e21baed80


    DAMON HILL
    Hill: I've never seen Hamilton drive so aggressively

    Yesterday, ‎19‎:‎15
    Damon Hill believes that Lewis Hamilton was in full attack mode when he and Max Verstappen made contact on the first lap of the British Grand Prix.
    F1 World Champion Damon Hill believes that a collision between Lewis Hamilton and Max Verstappen was inevitable at some point, and pointed out that he didn't think he'd ever seen Hamilton drive as aggressively against Verstappen as the first lap at Silverstone.
    Hill, speaking on the F1 Nation podcast, outlined that he felt Hamilton's desperation to get ahead of Verstappen was due to what had happened in the Sprint Qualifying race on Saturday, where the Dutch driver took the lead and was able to control the race.
    "I think it was inevitable, at some point there was going to be some coming together of the two, it was so aggressive," Hill said.
    "I've never seen Lewis drive that aggressively. I'm racking my brains to think of a time, the only thing I can come up with is Barcelona [2016] with when it was with Nico Rosberg.
    "It was full on attack mode. And I do wonder whether it was something to do with what happened the previous day in the sprint when he lost pole position."

    https://racingnews365.com/hill-ive-n...o-aggressively


    ‘Hamilton knows he will be dethroned by Verstappen’
    Date published: July 21 2021 - Finley Crebolder

    Dutch racing driver Tom Coronel says Lewis Hamilton is getting “stressed” by Max Verstappen as he knows the Red Bull man will dethrone him.
    The title fight between the two was taken to another level at the British Grand Prix where the two made contact soon after the start, causing Verstappen to crash out of the race.
    Hamilton went on to win and afterwards, the Dutchman slammed his celebrations as disrespectful, while the Mercedes man criticised his rival for being too aggressive.
    Coronel feels the incident was further proof that Hamilton is struggling with the pressure put on him by Verstappen and the fact he knows he will be “dethroned”.
    “I just see that Hamilton is getting stressed by Verstappen,” he told the Dutch branch of Motorsport.com.
    “We’ve known that for three years because if he leads the way, he will ask where Max is.
    “He just knows he is the all-time best and that he will be dethroned. We also know by whom.”

    https://www.planetf1.com/news/lewis-...pen-dethroned/


    FORMULA 1
    Rencken: I believe Red Bull intend to take this further

    21st July 2021, ‎17‎:‎00
    RN365 F1 journalist Dieter Rencken firmly believes that Red Bull are exploring every available avenue of review open to them over the Silverstone crash.
    Red Bull are certain to be reviewing every single available opportunity open to them in terms of legal review of the Silverstone crash that took Max Verstappen out of the British Grand Prix, and left the team with a hefty repair bill for their extremely damaged RB16B.
    That's the opinion of RacingNews365 F1 journalist Dieter Rencken, who told Thomas Maher on the RN365 F1 Podcast that Red Bull are exploring their rights to lodge a review of the steward's decision at Silverstone.
    "I do believe they will. When I say I do believe they will, I know that they are investigating every possible avenue and opportunity," Rencken said, outlining that Red Bull have until Saturday of the Hungarian Grand Prix to lodge a request to review the steward's decision with the FIA.
    "Whether that comes to something, I don't know. But, I think at the very, very least, they're going to ask for a review of the steward's decision, how they reached that decision based on what evidence, and I think that evidence will be absolutely crucial.
    "Who knows? Just maybe, maybe it will show up that Lewis had done something which we can't explain. It could equally prove that Lewis did absolutely nothing wrong. And therefore I think that's welcome that they do take this on review."
    Asked by Maher whether he believes Red Bull's comments regarding a rumoured hiring of sports lawyers to help investigate the circumstances of the collision, Rencken outlined that he doesn't believe that the team are blowing hot air.
    "I don't call it bluster, I don't believe it's bluster at all," he said.

    https://racingnews365.com/rencken-i-...e-this-further

  10. #239
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    Quote Originally Posted by truefan72 View Post
    That my friend is laughable.
    Max did not leave room for Hamilton and that is why they crashed.
    Look at Palmers F1 video :41sec in as to what happened at the same corner on Saturday in the sprint race.
    This is Saturday:

    Hamilton was on the outside and Max on the inside.
    Max clear as day drifted his car towards the outside to not give Hamilton any room
    Notice that Hamilton was slightly ahead, but chose not to turn in but sensibly back out.
    He didn't squeeze max, and decided to stay wider even into the entrance of corpse.
    but Max still veered towards the outside uncompromisingly.

    This Sunday:

    on Sunday Hamilton was on the inside and Max on the outside.
    Hamilton did not move towards the outside to aggressively intimidate Max, as was the case on Saturday by Max.
    didn't hear a peep from you folks about that. Or the fact that he further away from the "apex" that you cguys were blaming Hamilton for being on Sunday.
    Hamilton stayed on the inside and Max. Verstappen had like 2 cars widths of room on the outside, which he could have moved to but chose to move towards the inside like nobody was there. All the while knowing fully that Hamilton was well in his inside.
    He tried to be uncompromising, Hamilton refused to cede (probably what Max thought he was going to do) and there was a coming together.
    That's is why most folks understood this to be a racing incident at worst.
    I really don't understand what the 20 pages of back and forth is about, if it simply isn't Hamilton hate.
    Anytime Hamilton is involved, the hate brigade is quick to jump on it.
    Asking for rule changes, special laws and wholesale changes to the regs to "punish" Hamilton.
    I never heard a peep about this when Max or anyone else was involved in similar incidents.
    Those were racing incidents, but Hamilton...it's something else. I wonder what?
    I suggest many on here take their time and actually reflect on what is motivating their comments. Because they are beyond unbalanced.
    on to Hungary

    These chaps are bent on their views. The reality of what actually happened is of no concern to them. So l think you are wasting your time explaining to them. Verstappen's car could be on top of Hamilton's car and these chaps would fail to see it so.


    One cannot have a reasonable conversation with people unwilling to at least stop and take in the facts and then objectively review it and accept some of their views might be incorrect. You can't reason with these sorts of people. Dialogue is pointless. It is this sort of mentality that drives division among peoples and provide the bedrock for prejudices of all sorts.
    Last edited by Nitrodaze; 22nd July 2021 at 05:51.
    Better a witty fool than a foolish wit.
    William Shakespeare

  11. Likes: pantealex (22nd July 2021),truefan72 (22nd July 2021)
  12. #240
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    Quote Originally Posted by airshifter View Post
    I really don't see that as a contradiction. You can always leave more room, or even back out of it completely and let the other driver have the corner.

    But we will just have to agree to disagree on the matter regardless of what others think. I can appreciate that your opinion differs from mine and you have a right to it, and that you aren't one of the people engaging in the childish personal attacks but rather debating the issue at hand.






    Thanks Baggy. I guess through the years I've seen people get too wrapped up with the idol worship approach, and it's never suited me. I can't think of a single driver who hasn't got it wrong on plenty of occasions, and quite a few of them were considered some of the greatest. Some screwed it up less than others, but they all screwed it up at some point.

    And though IMHO a mistake, I didn't think it was intentional on the part of Lewis. And it was a far shout from Schumacher putting the Hakk into the grass at 190 mph, even when the rule back then more or less allowed it. But in a similar sense, any risky move should weigh the potential consequences for both drivers, and 180 mph certainly isn't slow.

    But.... much like yourself I'm not going to attack anyone over a difference of opinion.
    I honestly find it very hard to reconcile your opinion and how you can't see that both Saturday and Sunday were very similar but the other way around. I agree, we'll have to agree to disagree but I'm scratching my head here at people that think Hamilton was solely to blame for something Max clearly had and that we've shown has responsibility in as well.

    Anyway, it's great to see this topic has somewhat ignited this forum again. It's been too quiet the last number of years.

  13. Likes: pantealex (22nd July 2021),truefan72 (22nd July 2021)

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