2021 Race 10 - British Grand Prix

[Nitrodaze]

"...I could see he wasn't going to back out..."

I could see that , too .

The main difference between the inside moves on Max and Chuck for Lewis was that Max kept Lewis tight going into the corner .
That was deliberate and reasonable , as it's meant to put the opponent out of position to make the corner .

Chuck was much wider on the way in , which allowed Lewis a line to pass tight across the apex , ahead .

I thought he was already too committed to get out of it. Either way, it was going to be a crash

[joe1888cfc]

I wonder if you really know exactly how the crash occurred? If you watch the moment of the contact again, you would find that the accident occurred because they locked wheels. Verstappen's right rear was behind Hamilton's front left tyre. Verstappen rear moved into Hamilton's left tyre causing the spin and the tyre sheering of the car. It was not a case of Hamilton driving into Verstappen per se. They just raced too close without giving each other enough room.

The steering videos showed Hamilton at full right lock trying to turn round the corner. It also showed Verstappen make a small adjustment left and then turned right which locked the wheels of both cars.

So when you ask these sorts of questions, you should stop for a moment and ask what the other driver has done to prevent the accident. It was a shared fault by both drivers. That is what racing is about. It is not a Sunday drive to the shops. Any racing driver that is unprepared to fight at a corner has no business being in F1. The idea of backing off is for losers.

I've watched the crash many times, I've seen how it happens.
If the idea of backing off is for losers then there's gonna be crashes at the start of every grand Prix.
Lewis has backed off in races up till Silverstone and he should have again, he would have had ample opportunity to have another go at the pass.

[Nitrodaze]

No idea how folk can blame max for this

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Unfortunately, that diagram does not describe the incident. Car 44 was further alongside car 33. It wasn't a tyre side to tyre side contact. Well, Hamilton has had enough of Verstappen's overly aggressive driving. As Vettel did in 2018.

I am not trying to say Hamilton is faultless in the accident. I am saying he had to make a point that being gentlemanly while racing in corners is no indication of weakness. To suggest that he should back off is unreasonable. It is a championship battle afterall.

[Nitrodaze]

I've watched the crash many times, I've seen how it happens.
If the idea of backing off is for losers then there's gonna be crashes at the start of every grand Prix.
Lewis has backed off in races up till Silverstone and he should have again, he would have had ample opportunity to have another go at the pass.

But there are and always so. It even happened on the first lap between Russell and Sainz l think.

[joe1888cfc]

Unfortunately, that diagram does not describe the incident. Car 44 was further alongside car 33. It wasn't a tyre side to tyre side contact.

Was he?

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[Bagwan]

I wonder if you really know exactly how the crash occurred? If you watch the moment of the contact again, you would find that the accident occurred because they locked wheels. Verstappen's right rear was behind Hamilton's front left tyre. Verstappen rear moved into Hamilton's left tyre causing the spin and the tyre sheering of the car. It was not a case of Hamilton driving into Verstappen per se. They just raced too close without giving each other enough room.

The steering videos showed Hamilton at full right lock trying to turn round the corner. It also showed Verstappen make a small adjustment left and then turned right which locked the wheels of both cars.

So when you ask these sorts of questions, you should stop for a moment and ask what the other driver has done to prevent the accident. It was a shared fault by both drivers. That is what racing is about. It is not a Sunday drive to the shops. Any racing driver that is unprepared to fight at a corner has no business being in F1. The idea of backing off is for losers.

I wonder if you really know how condescending your first line is , and that it invokes incendiary replies ?

The stewards found that Max had left room at the apex for Lewis .

Given that he has since proclaimed that he didn't think Max would back out of it kind of implies he expected contact , since he didn't chose to back out of it , either .
He perhaps should have said he expected Max to back out of it because he was right alongside , and stuck with that .

[joe1888cfc]

I wonder if you really know exactly how the crash occurred? If you watch the moment of the contact again, you would find that the accident occurred because they locked wheels. Verstappen's right rear was behind Hamilton's front left tyre. Verstappen rear moved into Hamilton's left tyre causing the spin and the tyre sheering of the car. It was not a case of Hamilton driving into Verstappen per se. They just raced too close without giving each other enough room.

The steering videos showed Hamilton at full right lock trying to turn round the corner. It also showed Verstappen make a small adjustment left and then turned right which locked the wheels of both cars.

So when you ask these sorts of questions, you should stop for a moment and ask what the other driver has done to prevent the accident. It was a shared fault by both drivers. That is what racing is about. It is not a Sunday drive to the shops. Any racing driver that is unprepared to fight at a corner has no business being in F1. The idea of backing off is for losers.

Wonder why the stewards decided then that Hamilton was at fault then eh?

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[Nitrodaze]

I wonder if you really know how condescending your first line is , and that it invokes incendiary replies ?

The stewards found that Max had left room at the apex for Lewis .

Given that he has since proclaimed that he didn't think Max would back out of it kind of implies he expected contact , since he didn't chose to back out of it , either .
He perhaps should have said he expected Max to back out of it because he was right alongside , and stuck with that .

That was not my intention, l meant to ask an honest question.

With Hamilton's trajectory coming from close to the wall, there no way he could take any avoiding action. Especially as the steering video showed him at full rightward lock. There was enough outcry to force the stewards to give penalty. It was really a racing incident. Many that want to apportion the blame onesidedly do so from an emotional perspective. It was racing pure and true.

[Nitrodaze]

Wonder why the stewards decided then that Hamilton was at fault then eh?

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The visual image of the high speed crash into the wall instantly provoked enough reaction. I have a feeling that the stewards were taken by the graphic of the crash into the barrier in their decision to award a penalty. In this situation, how much penalty to award is perceived differently by all stakeholders involved. The stewards thought 10 seconds, Mercedes thought zero and Redbull thought a stop and go penalty of 10 seconds.


If you look at all of these perspectives, then you find that the teams were only concerned with point losses and how to limit the damage. A stop and go would have reduced the point losses for Redbull. Mercedes were of course concerned about catching up to Redbull in the constructors and driver championships. The stewards have to be seen to be doing something as declaring a racing incident would invoke the wraft of Redbull's very outspoken criticism.

It was a done deal that there was going to be some sort of punishment. Hence, it came as no surprise to Hamilton when he was informed.

[Nitrodaze]

Was he?

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The right pic was just after the contact. You can clearly see the Redbull was beginning to spin. Have a look at Karun Chandhoks analysis of the incident on the skysport website.