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  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by scn View Post
    https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/is-20...s-robert-reid/

    I am afraid Nicky Grist is right. Route is very short and the recce videos show it rather soft. Maybe FIA should examine some change in the distance limits for certain rallies, like Safari and Acropolis. A rally championship without some truly endurance events is lacking a certain aspect of the sport.
    The Safari was the WRC's equivalent of other iconic motorsport events; Indy 500, Le Mans 24 Hours......

    They still run as intended; and both are completely different from the other races in the series.

    The Indy 500 is all about May; the only change is the addition of a road course race at the beginning of May before practice, and qualifying for the 500.
    Le Mans has a test day about 2 weeks before; then on the Sunday/Monday before the race is the scrutineering in the town square. Wednesday/ Thursday afternoon/evening sees practice and qualifying. Followed by a press & media day on the Friday. And then the race twice round the clock on Saturday & Sunday.

    The thought of changing them, and making them suitable for modern audiences would be a huge error. It simply won't happen. Alas, rallying has done just that; trashing it's historic/iconic events, so we get identikit events. Cutting costs, and making them easy for TV/media to sell is the reason we're constantly told. Fine......but don't complain when the sport isn't offering any value to sponsors, manufacturers, etc

    Drop the Safari name, and call it Rally Kenya; I'm sure it will be a good event, and hopefully provides an element of surprise to competitors.

    Is there a better sound than that of Porsche engined Flat-6 ???

  2. Likes: skarderud (23rd June 2021)
  3. #82
    Senior Member AnttiL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndyRAC View Post

    Drop the Safari name, and call it Rally Kenya; I'm sure it will be a good event, and hopefully provides an element of surprise to competitors.
    I agree with this part of your post.

    However, arranging Safari like it was in the past is just impossible. The traffic in Kenya has increased, you cannot rally on open roads as freely anymore (yeah, they still do the historic event, but it's for a different purpose, it's not so serious). In Le Mans it's easier to retain the length, just enough laps on the circuit.

    The teams don't have the budgets they had in the past. This has nothing to do with the rules of rallying itself. Rallying just isn't viewed as an important marketing tool as it was in the past. Things like Toyota spending six months in Kenya, running through the 4000 km route three times in preparation with helicopter flying constantly over the car and chase cars running behind....it just won't happen anymore.

    The sport has changed from endurance to speed contest. Driving on an event like that would be a lot different, a lot slower, more cars retiring or falling behind, no more split time following etc. things would happen slowly, you have maybe hours of gaps and things would be decided by service time. That wouldn't fit the All Live format either, because there would be technical and economical limits.

    I don't understand why this discussion is brought up now. All rallies were made 400 km long in 1997 (except Safari 1000 km long, a lot shorter than before) and that's when the sport really started to thrive with more factory teams and tight competition than ever. Maybe in the end making the events "identikit" and more TV friendly actually made it more attractive for people to start following?

    Meanwhile, nobody sees the problem that Monte Carlo has been run without the concentration run since 1997, and RAC has had pace notes since 1990? Acropolis has been able to run with 0 road penalties etc.

    Also understand that even Safari itself changed during the decades. Rauno Aaltonen complained already in 1982 that the route is too short and easy, when it was 5000 km long. When McRae won it in 2002, it was only 1000 km long, but that's still seen as a triumph.
    Last edited by AnttiL; 22nd June 2021 at 10:53.

  4. Likes: steve.mandzij (22nd June 2021)
  5. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnttiL View Post
    Acropolis couldn’t even make it to the minimum of 300 km this year…

    Who wants that other than a small group of old farts who crave for nostalgy? The average spectator who watches the two live stages on TV or goes to spectate one stage on his domestic rally?
    I have always found this argument irrelevant. Nowadays with streaming platforms in a binge-watching era an average joe would watch a tv show/sport event etc. all day if he finds it interesting enough.

    The problem with WRC is that it isnt entertaining enough. Not enough manufacturers and drivers, drivers not going flatout all the time especially those dreaded tyre saving sundays, Pirelli tyres that are killing the action, the worst streaming platform in any sport and probably a lot more but these are first that came to my mind.

  6. #84
    Senior Member AnttiL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tauri_J View Post
    drivers not going flatout all the time especially those dreaded tyre saving sundays
    If the events get any longer, there will be more of this stuff.

  7. Likes: cali (22nd June 2021)
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    Senior Member PLuto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scn View Post
    https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/is-20...s-robert-reid/

    I am afraid Nicky Grist is right. Route is very short and the recce videos show it rather soft. Maybe FIA should examine some change in the distance limits for certain rallies, like Safari and Acropolis. A rally championship without some truly endurance events is lacking a certain aspect of the sport.
    I think FIA should examine changes in the distance limits for ALL rallies. Events are shorter and shorter, not worth to name "world championship".

  9. Likes: Eli (22nd June 2021),the sniper (22nd June 2021)
  10. #86
    Senior Member AnttiL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PLuto View Post
    I think FIA should examine changes in the distance limits for ALL rallies. Events are shorter and shorter, not worth to name "world championship".
    300-400 km has been used for years now, but during COVID-19 the have allowed shorter events to be arranged since it's less expensive.

  11. Likes: cali (22nd June 2021)
  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnttiL View Post
    If the events get any longer, there will be more of this stuff.
    Points for every stage and more remote tyre zones should help

  13. #88
    Senior Member AnttiL's Avatar
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    [WRC] Safari Rally Kenya 2021

    Quote Originally Posted by Tauri_J View Post
    Points for every stage and more remote tyre zones should help
    No, I meant that longer events result in more ”protective” driving. Not going flat out all the time.

  14. Likes: cali (22nd June 2021)
  15. #89
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    I personally didn't like the short "covid" rallies lasting 2 days. with 250-ish km. But I also don't see the point of much more than 3 days and 350-400 km.

    - 1000 km "safari" would simply be incredibly boring to follow for everyone, even in the "modern" format Safari you had Sainz falling asleep on the stage while driving....
    No, nobody would "binge watch" 1000 km rallies at "moderate" pace.

    - Complaining how rallies is not the same as 40 years ago and then saying we should introduce points for every stage is somewhat funny.

    - Comparing with LeMans which is the closest motorsport equivalent just doesn't work, they just run more rounds on same circuit. In rally would then do 4 passes per stage? (that wouldn't work on gravel)
    Most notably LeMans is the main endurance competition, the other 6/12 hour races are something that acts as a "support" for the main event. Therefore the cars and concept are build to work for 24 hours and are then "downscaled" for shorter races. WRC is not build for 1000km+ competition nowadays.

  16. Likes: AnttiL (22nd June 2021),Corcaíoch (22nd June 2021),Eli (22nd June 2021),Jewy46 (24th June 2021),pantealex (22nd June 2021)
  17. #90
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    All arguments for not trying to revive the past are very valid. However I see no value in "identikit" events. Diversity is what makes things interesting. On a sporting level (whoever wins is a complete driver) and for the spectator.
    Rallying's DNA is about diversity. Snow, gravel and dirt. Coping with dreadful wheather/poor road conditions (no safety car in rallying when it starts raining !). Amazing (and diffferent) sceneries. Multiple categories running the same event. Amateurs mixed with professionals. Etc ...
    So in the end, I understand that the world is so different then in the 60's, that the costs have skyrocketed . But the value proposition argument (no manufactuer wants to spend a lot of money on rallying those days) is a bit of a chicken and egg thing. And i am conviced that if rallying would forget about the boring "identikit" format, it could raise its appeal.
    So long story short, why wouldn't the championship mix short and long events, fast flowing and slow endurance events ? Monte Carlo could be a bit longer with night stages (the "final night", arriving in Monaco at dawn is a PR's dream, isn't it ?). Safari, Acropolis, Turkey, Cyprus or whatever on the rough side (not necessiraly long, but having drivers managing their effort) and then the actual super-fast, to the second sprints. In this picture, a somehow extended Safari (400 ? 500 km ? No one is talking of 5000km anymore !) could then be one of the series crown jewels, as it is iconic. Inversely, some sprint events could be shortened. Corsica used to be only 24hours ways back then and god it was one of the drivers preferred event !

  18. Likes: steve.mandzij (22nd June 2021)

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