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  1. #61
    Senior Member truefan72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by N. Jones View Post
    The old men, all almost out of the points. I think the nostalgia factor has worn off for Vettel, Alonso, and Raikkonen (I know Vettel isn't that old but he is driving like it).
    I think Kimi drove a superb race. He also had a dynamite start and in the end p9 was taken away by a harsh penalty that had nothing to do with his driving.
    Alonso will get up to speed and probably understands how 2 years away from F1 requires some time to adjust back. Also, the alpine is a bit twitchy.
    Vettel, on the other hand is probably cooked IMO. This should be his last year.
    you can't argue with results.

  2. Likes: Mia 01 (19th April 2021)
  3. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitrodaze View Post
    Toto Woolf has a blind spot when it comes to Bottas. If he were in another team, he would have been sent packing two seasons back.
    That might change if it is going to cost them the championship. He has been worse this year than previous years. I wouldn't be surprised if he went the entire season without a win.

  4. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitrodaze View Post
    There was an initial rightward movement by Bottas in a half attempt to defend. But he left a car's width for Russell's Williams. Russell seemed to me to have panicked and moved too far rightwards which put his tyres on the grass. I don't think it is Bottas' fault.
    It's not really a case of whether he left a cars width from Russell, it's a case of whether he should have made that rightward movement to begin with. Okay, nothing in the rules against it but we all know that a right movement like that at 300km/h is not on. It's threatening another drive effectively with a crash if he doesn't back out. It's what Ayrton used to do in the day and Schumacher as well did it. Give the person a choice to back out or crash. There is an agreement between drivers not to do this anymore today and that is why I place more blame at the feet of Bottas. Yes, it spooked Russell but he was only spooked by Bottas unexpected movement. We saw probably a couple of dozen overtaking opportunities at that corner during the race without any other drivers making that movement because they kept to the agreements.

  5. Likes: truefan72 (26th April 2021)
  6. #64
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    Bottas tried to startle russel by suddenly moving towards him, and it worked.

    That was a stupid move, something i would expect from mazepin, not from someone as experienced as bottas.

  7. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Black Knight View Post
    It's not really a case of whether he left a cars width from Russell, it's a case of whether he should have made that rightward movement to begin with. Okay, nothing in the rules against it but we all know that a right movement like that at 300km/h is not on. It's threatening another drive effectively with a crash if he doesn't back out. It's what Ayrton used to do in the day and Schumacher as well did it. Give the person a choice to back out or crash. There is an agreement between drivers not to do this anymore today and that is why I place more blame at the feet of Bottas. Yes, it spooked Russell but he was only spooked by Bottas unexpected movement. We saw probably a couple of dozen overtaking opportunities at that corner during the race without any other drivers making that movement because they kept to the agreements.
    If you read the stewards report on the matter, they indicated that the track narrowed as both drivers approached a kink. Bottas traced the left edge of the track which made him move to the right. His steering wheel showed him turning leftwards. He did not take any action that was out of the ordinary. Most importantly, he left a car's width for Russell.
    They called it a racing incident. It is simple, Russell panicked, gave Bottas a wide berth and dipped his rear on the wet grass. which spun the car into Bottas. Bottas was definitely not at fault at all.
    Better a witty fool than a foolish wit.
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  8. #66
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    I re-watched it last night and even rode along with each driver. Unfortunately Bottas view was not from where you could see his hands, but this is what I saw.

    1. Bottas drifted to the right. I did not see a jerk or anything. He seemed to be just doing a Sunday drive through the Italian countryside not paying attention to anything around him feeling sorry for himself about how bad his drive was going.

    2. Russell felt Bottas drifting and overcorrected, and lost it. There was ample amount of room on his left between him and Bottas. He made a mistake and it became a racing incident.

    I am somewhat mystified what Russell endgame is by doubling and tripling down on this. Is he just wanting to keep everybody eye on Bottas and to get them to ask why Bottas was even down where a Williams is squabbling with him? He doesn't come off well either.

  9. Likes: Zico (19th April 2021)
  10. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by truefan72 View Post
    fair point, but to me the onboards show bottas make his one move to the left to cover the inside, then he jinked to the right as Russell was already along side and in the process of overtaking him. mind you, with much greater speed. TBH I believe Russell when he said, any other driver and Bottas would not have made that move. ultimately it cost them both and that is the worst possible outcome. Bottas excuse also doesn't hold up IMO. Russell was overtaking him and he knew that probably 2 corners ago already. Just didn't want to be passed by the Williams and Russell. In comparison, Hamilton fought with both sainz, leclerc and Norris to try and make that pass on the very same section, with multiple attempts to pass on the outside and all 3 of those drivers defended properly without swerving to the right.
    It was regrettable that he made that statement. Because he has shown a side that did not impress Mercedes. As it went, the stewards did not find any evidence that Bottas acted in any way dishonourable. Besides, that is not the sort of thing that Bottas would do. He is not that sort of driver.
    Last edited by Nitrodaze; 19th April 2021 at 18:01.
    Better a witty fool than a foolish wit.
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  11. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by F1nKS View Post
    I am somewhat mystified what Russell endgame is by doubling and tripling down on this. Is he just wanting to keep everybody eye on Bottas and to get them to ask why Bottas was even down where a Williams is squabbling with him? He doesn't come off well either.
    Just as I write that, Russell releases a statement

    He said he had to take responsibility for his overtaking move having ended in an accident, and accepted he did not behave in the correct manner afterwards.

    “Yesterday wasn't my proudest day,” he said.

    “I knew it would be one of our best opportunities to score points this season and, when those points matter as much as they do to us right now, sometimes you take risks.

    "It didn't pay off and l have to take responsibility for that.

    “Having had time to reflect on what happened afterwards, I know I should have handled the whole situation better.
    https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/ru...ttas-/6350902/

  12. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by truefan72 View Post
    fair point, but to me the onboards show bottas make his one move to the left to cover the inside, then he jinked to the right as Russell was already along side and in the process of overtaking him. mind you, with much greater speed. TBH I believe Russell when he said, any other driver and Bottas would not have made that move. ultimately it cost them both and that is the worst possible outcome. Bottas excuse also doesn't hold up IMO. Russell was overtaking him and he knew that probably 2 corners ago already. Just didn't want to be passed by the Williams and Russell. In comparison, Hamilton fought with both sainz, leclerc and Norris to try and make that pass on the very same section, with multiple attempts to pass on the outside and all 3 of those drivers defended properly without swerving to the right.

    Surprisingly the stewards report on the incident suggests Bottas didn't swerve... even though it looked that way to me initially also.

    “The Stewards heard from the driver of Car 63 (George Russell), the driver of Car 77 (Valtteri Bottas) and the team representatives and reviewed multiple angles of video evidence and telemetry.

    “Car 63 approached car 77 to pass after the front straight a few laps after the restart when DRS had recently been enabled. Car 77 maintained his line throughout the incident along the right hand side of the dry line, leaving at least a full car’s width to the right at all times.

    “Car 63 approached with a significant speed advantage. He moved to pass on the right. As the cars approached the kink of turn 1, the gap between them and the right hand side of the track decreased. At no time did either car manoeuvre erratically.

    “The track appeared to be not especially wet through turn 1 but at the point of closest approach to the right hand side of the track, the right hand side tyres of Car 63 hit an especially damp patch and the car snap yawed, bearing in mind that the car had low downforce in the rear with the DRS open.

    “The Stewards conclude that the accident was a racing incident considering the conditions and take no further action.”

    I guess the difference between a mere squeeze and a jink as Russell saw it, is relative to the closing speed. I can see this one both ways but if the telemetry showed that Bottas didn't do it, I feel they called it correctly.
    The emergence of the new 'Rainmaster' - Mad Max at Interlagos 2016!

  13. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by F[b
    Loser1nKS;1268272]Winners
    1. Verstappen - great start to take control of the race
    by pulling his usual over aggressive move and damaging his opponents car.
    Without that move Hamilton would have had a fair chance of winning.

    Cheers

    Daniel

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