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  1. #71
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    As Landon Norris says after he has rewiwed the race. Max overtook Lewis on track it was only a few seconds after that he slipped a bit. My opinion stands, Max should have kept his position.

  2. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mia 01 View Post
    As Landon Norris says after he has rewiwed the race. Max overtook Lewis on track it was only a few seconds after that he slipped a bit. My opinion stands, Max should have kept his position.
    He went off track to ensure he kept the position. It was the right decision. It’s Max not Kimi he was fighting so you can take off the blinkers

  3. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitrodaze View Post
    My point exactly. It is ridiculous to call someone "one of the greatest drivers" before they win an F1 world championship title. that would make the entire grid "one of the greatest drivers". It is insulting to the seven times world champion l find. WTF.

    It was said by someone that has never won an F1 drivers world title, so l guess they don't properly appreciate what it takes to win one of those.
    100% agree. I’ve said it time and time again that Max is overrated given the car he has had and what he has achieved. It took him way too long to get his first pole position. The jury is out on him and time will tell.

  4. #74
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    With the benefit of hindsight its easy to say that Max should have kept it but realistically there is very little chance of the stewards allowing it to stand.
    Ignore them, and even if he had pulled out a 6 second gap I think they would likely have given him a 10s+ penalty because not only is their authority being undermined but IMO it's also a bad precedent to set. By allowing it multilaterally you would be removing the advantage of track position from racing.. which is not something that sits well with me.

    Maybe you feel that track position is still far too advantageous despite the recent efforts to reduce it and whilst I agree that it still probably is.. this is still not the way forward.

    I do feel they messed up by not imposing track limits everywhere and all the time but even allowing a one time off track pass to equal things out.. that's just far too contrived for me and not right either.

    It is the Stewards mistake but also Mercs brilliant interpretation of Masi's wording and Red Bull not being on the ball fast enough to quickly put a stop to it.. Althought to be fair to RB, stewarding the stewards shouldn't be their job.

    It is what it is.. Masi just needs to up his game and make sure it doesnt happen again.

  5. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitrodaze View Post
    I wonder how you would expect them to have any sort of conversation that would result in anything other than a five to ten seconds penalty if they ignored the warning of the stewards. I don't understand your reasoning. It just comes across as if anything other than a Verstappen win was not good enough for you. He would get many, so hang on until the next race.
    But l am sorry to say, the Redbull team did the right thing. Ignoring stewards warning is not going to endear them to the stewards.

    Winning by going off track and ignoring the steward's warning in the process, would suggest that Redbull operates to different set of rules to the rest of the grid.
    I'm sorry you don't understand , as I put it as clearly as I could .

    Ignoring a warning gets you the penalty that they warned you would get .
    I hope that's clearer .

    At that time in the race , there would be no time to argue their point , but as it's a time penalty , you are allowed to take the penalty , and try to gain back the time by getting far enough ahead .
    And , it is the only way to get to the stewards after the race to argue your side of the offense .

    If you can show a reasonable defense , there is every chance you can win your case .
    As we all know , stewards are people , and can sometimes get it wrong .
    As I understand it , the only way to question a call is to take the penalty and argue the case .

    Max and RB took the decision to give the place back , but , had they had a little more time to think about it , they may have chosen to stay ahead .
    Instead , they chose to let Lewis back past very quickly , which , in the moment appeared to give Max more time to re-pass for the win .

    As Mia mentioned , Lando commented that the pass was already made before he went off .
    That's a completely new perspective on the situation coming from a guy with a Merc engine .

    So , perhaps Max had a point , as I originally said .



    " It just comes across as if anything other than a Verstappen win was not good enough for you."
    I really don't know how to respond to you when you post lines like this .

  6. Likes: Mia 01 (2nd April 2021)
  7. #76
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    If you haven't seen this, this is Mercedes briefing of the Bahrain GP https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpebKhQLj4s
    Better a witty fool than a foolish wit.
    William Shakespeare

  8. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bagwan View Post
    I'm sorry you don't understand , as I put it as clearly as I could .

    Ignoring a warning gets you the penalty that they warned you would get .
    I hope that's clearer .

    At that time in the race , there would be no time to argue their point , but as it's a time penalty , you are allowed to take the penalty , and try to gain back the time by getting far enough ahead .
    And , it is the only way to get to the stewards after the race to argue your side of the offense .

    If you can show a reasonable defense , there is every chance you can win your case .
    As we all know , stewards are people , and can sometimes get it wrong .
    As I understand it , the only way to question a call is to take the penalty and argue the case .

    Max and RB took the decision to give the place back , but , had they had a little more time to think about it , they may have chosen to stay ahead .
    Instead , they chose to let Lewis back past very quickly , which , in the moment appeared to give Max more time to re-pass for the win .

    As Mia mentioned , Lando commented that the pass was already made before he went off .
    That's a completely new perspective on the situation coming from a guy with a Merc engine .

    So , perhaps Max had a point , as I originally said .



    " It just comes across as if anything other than a Verstappen win was not good enough for you."
    I really don't know how to respond to you when you post lines like this .
    It is an optimistic perspective, but l understood that. What l fail to understand is why you think the stewards got their warning wrong on this occasion. Or why you think Verstappen may have any chance at all of keeping the win; assuming he was able to stretch out a five seconds lead. That said, on to the next one. I am sure there would be many situations like this to discuss this season. It is very close, with the Mercedes slower than the Redbull.

    This is the sort of season that shows why Hamilton is better than any of the other multiple world champions on the grid. As none of them has experienced this sort of season. Except for Alonso, of course, who came so close to that, fighting Vettel in the Redbull with a slightly slower Ferrari. The Ferrari on that occasion was nearly as fast as the Redbull, a closer gap than the Mercedes has at the moment, l think.
    Last edited by Nitrodaze; 2nd April 2021 at 15:59.
    Better a witty fool than a foolish wit.
    William Shakespeare

  9. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitrodaze View Post
    It is an optimistic perspective, but l understood that. What l fail to understand is why you think the stewards got their warning wrong on this occasion. Or why you think Verstappen may have any chance at all of keeping the win; assuming he was able to stretch out a five seconds lead. That said, on to the next one. I am sure there would be many situations like this to discuss this season. It is very close, with the Mercedes slower than the Redbull.

    This is the sort of season that shows why Hamilton is better than any of the other multiple world champions on the grid. As none of them has experienced this sort of season. Except for Alonso, of course, who came so close to that, fighting Vettel in the Redbull with a slightly slower Ferrari. The Ferrari on that occasion was nearly as fast as the Redbull, a closer gap than the Mercedes has at the moment, l think.
    Max had the chance to negate the penalty entirely if he had stayed ahead , and , if he couldn't take those 5 seconds back , he could have argued the point .
    Had he lost the argument about the original warning he would only have lost those 5 seconds , which would have had him in second place anyway , so there was really no down side .
    Had it not been so late , and so pressured at the time , a different decision might have been made as to the position swap .

    It was the "gentleman racer" ethics that impressed me at the time , by the team that made the snap decision , and the driver who toed the line .
    I am still impressed by what they did .
    It felt a little "old school" in a way , and it wasn't what I expected from either Red Bull or from Max .


    So , perhaps now you can see that , far from being upset , I am happy about the outcome , but I do think they could have argued their case and won .

    Make no mistake , the fur will be flying all season if they are this close to each other .
    Your Sir Lewis might get a little more respect if all the others are a little closer and he has to fight hard for it . I am sure you'd enjoy that .

  10. Likes: Mia 01 (2nd April 2021)
  11. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bagwan View Post
    Max had the chance to negate the penalty entirely if he had stayed ahead , and , if he couldn't take those 5 seconds back , he could have argued the point .
    Had he lost the argument about the original warning he would only have lost those 5 seconds , which would have had him in second place anyway , so there was really no down side .
    Had it not been so late , and so pressured at the time , a different decision might have been made as to the position swap .

    It was the "gentleman racer" ethics that impressed me at the time , by the team that made the snap decision , and the driver who toed the line .
    I am still impressed by what they did .
    It felt a little "old school" in a way , and it wasn't what I expected from either Red Bull or from Max .


    So , perhaps now you can see that , far from being upset , I am happy about the outcome , but I do think they could have argued their case and won .

    Make no mistake , the fur will be flying all season if they are this close to each other .
    Your Sir Lewis might get a little more respect if all the others are a little closer and he has to fight hard for it . I am sure you'd enjoy that .
    Yes, l like Hamilton. But l like Verstappen also, you would be surprised to hear. When it comes to fairness, l try to be very objective. It certainly would not impress anybody if they ignored the stewards and got into an argument with them in the process. It certainly would not go down well if he won the race by doing so. You say these things as if Mercedes do not have any say in this. Or that the stewards would entertain any discussion after they have been brazenly ignored on tv across the globe.

    Redbull encouraging their driver to ignore the stewards would have greatly undermined the office of the stewards. It would open the door for other teams to ignore them also in the future. And the racing would soon deteriorate into an uncontrolled activity with teams making the rules as they go on. Put it simply, it would have been a very bad thing if they had ignored the stewards and tried to force the win to stay. Verstappen tried this very thing a few seasons back and was kicked off the podium as a consequence. He did the same thing in 2017, passing Kimi illegally and got kicked off the podium by not very impressed stewards.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rr1j7Z0ZTM

    There should be no place for this sort of thing in F1. This is where it starts, and then it progressively gets out of hand.
    Last edited by Nitrodaze; 2nd April 2021 at 21:52.
    Better a witty fool than a foolish wit.
    William Shakespeare

  12. #80
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    No suprise here, Hamilton fans has there opinion straight. I´m no fan of Max but I like a fair fight and this year there can be one. The RB team will not give Lewis another win like this I think.

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