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  1. #21
    Senior Member AnttiL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonkka View Post
    Hopefully it doesn't mean that reverse also applies. In theory, numerus clausus could mean that there are four and only four licenses so no new manufacturer can join. And in case one does, how do they divvy up the development costs between varying number of beneficiaries. Hopefully this has been taken into consideration.
    Four?

  2. #22
    Senior Member Mirek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mknight View Post
    "Tiny" it certainly isn't. More than twice the battery size of the Toyota hybrids for example. Much bigger than F1 battery also afaik and certainly enough to give a boost on a lot of corners or replace ALS in giving trottle response.

    Sadly from what I got so far it won't be used for anything like that. Would have been interesting addition imo if the drivers had a charge indicator and a button to use it.
    F1 is irrelevant, their system is designed only as an additional boost and it is limited by energy per round. Stock Toyota hybrids are also close to being irrelevant becuse they are combined with Atkinson-cycle engines and CVT which means the engine can run in near-constant RPM where it has very high effciency.

    3,9 kWh is tiny because in reality it is enough for some 20 km of liaison cruising or for 2,5 minutes of full power (4 km @ 100 km/h average speed).
    Stupid is as stupid does. Forrest Gump

  3. #23
    Senior Member Fast Eddie WRC's Avatar
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    M-Sport Ford officially committted:

    https://www.m-sport.co.uk/single-pos...wrc-hybrid-era

  4. #24
    Senior Member Fast Eddie WRC's Avatar
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    M.Wilson:
    “As the toughest championship for production-based cars, the FIA World Rally Championship provides the perfect platform to test, develop and promote the latest road car technology – making this development integral to the relevance and continuation of our sport."

    Production-based ?

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnttiL View Post
    Four?
    Yes, there are four licenses.

    EDIT: Link to FIA statement: https://www.fia.com/news/wrc-manufac...022-hybrid-era
    and excerpt from it:

    Through this model, the participation in the FIA World Rally Championship will shift in 2022 to a numerus clausus system of four slots, with each of the three current manufacturers and the FIA owning one slot.
    Last edited by jonkka; 31st March 2021 at 11:53.

  6. Likes: AnttiL (31st March 2021)
  7. #26
    Senior Member Mirek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC View Post
    M.Wilson:
    “As the toughest championship for production-based cars, the FIA World Rally Championship provides the perfect platform to test, develop and promote the latest road car technology – making this development integral to the relevance and continuation of our sport."

    Production-based ?
    PR talk
    Stupid is as stupid does. Forrest Gump

  8. Likes: AndyRAC (31st March 2021),AnttiL (31st March 2021),cali (31st March 2021),Jewy46 (1st April 2021),pantealex (6th April 2021),Tom K (31st March 2021)
  9. #27
    Senior Member Tom K's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC View Post
    M.Wilson:
    “As the toughest championship for production-based cars, the FIA World Rally Championship provides the perfect platform to test, develop and promote the latest road car technology – making this development integral to the relevance and continuation of our sport."

    Production-based ?
    I think we can say that. You have Yaris, i20 and Fiesta. All are shape-wise, bodyshell-wise and originating a bit from "production/road" cars. It's quite different to F1 or Formula E, when you basically have only names: Audi, Porsche, Mercedes, Alpine etc.

  10. #28
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    The 3 current manufacturers re-signing for 2022 onwards is obviously good news - but I find some of it a bit too much. The FiA/ Promoter patting themselves on the back for keeping the current ones - but failing to attract anymore. Classic PR spin.

    Manufacturers are out there - they're just not interested in WRC.

    Is there a better sound than that of Porsche engined Flat-6 ???

  11. #29
    Senior Member er88's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndyRAC View Post
    The 3 current manufacturers re-signing for 2022 onwards is obviously good news - but I find some of it a bit too much. The FiA/ Promoter patting themselves on the back for keeping the current ones - but failing to attract anymore. Classic PR spin.

    Manufacturers are out there - they're just not interested in WRC.
    Can say that, but F1 basically only has Merc, Ferrari and Alpine/Renualt.

    Having 3 WRC teams is ok. 4 is probably optimal - at max 5, because when you have more, the weaker teams who don't get results will just leave (Seat/Suzuki/ old Skoda etc etc).

    You'll only ever see 6/7/8 semi permanent manufactures if we ever go full electric, imo

  12. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mirek View Post
    F1 is irrelevant, their system is designed only as an additional boost and it is limited by energy per round. Stock Toyota hybrids are also close to being irrelevant becuse they are combined with Atkinson-cycle engines and CVT which means the engine can run in near-constant RPM where it has very high effciency.

    3,9 kWh is tiny because in reality it is enough for some 20 km of liaison cruising or for 2,5 minutes of full power (4 km @ 100 km/h average speed).
    Here you just totally contradicted yourself in your own post.

    2,5 mins of 100 kW full power is tiny and irrelevant on stages that are usually 10-15 mins? (out of which surely less than 50% are on full throttle).

    So if the car does not use that power it will not be slower?
    (whether a car without the whole system onboard is faster or slower is another question that is much harder to answer and surely depends a lot on stage character and surface)

    For the first part. Point is that at minimum you only need a battery that is big enough to store the energy you get from braking (or from petrol engine, but that is less relevant on a race car) until you use it. Which is why a "tiny" 1,6 kWh battery in Toyota is enough to make a difference. Why are you even writing about how the Toyota hybrid drive is set up? It has completely zero relevance to the topic here, it only answers why it reduces fuel consumption a lot, but that's not what we are discussing, we are discussing whether the hybrid for Rallly1 does anything. Ref:

    Quote Originally Posted by denkimi View Post
    It was never meant to be anything but PR.

    They can now claim that it are hybrid cars which, technically, they are.
    The above quote that you agree with is simply not true. This is (or does not need to) be just a "PR sticker" that does nothing to how the car drives except for adding weight and it certainly does not need a bigger battery to make a difference.

    If we go back to simple explanations again. The "tiny" battery is more than enough to store braking energy and with some 60-70% efficiency (braking->battery->power) it means that for each 10s of full braking you get 6-7 seconds of full power (100 kW). Without having any energy in the battery before stage start.


    Off course all this depends on how and when you can use that electric power. I read somewhere that it will only be allowed on "some allowed corners". If true that indeed does destroy a lot of the potential sports-wise, but in that case it's due to the rules and not due to how the system is designed.

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