Page 48 of 72 FirstFirst ... 38464748495058 ... LastLast
Results 471 to 480 of 717
  1. #471
    Senior Member Rallyper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Östhammar, Sweden
    Posts
    8,075
    Like
    5,620
    Liked 2,832 Times in 1,606 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirek View Post
    I remember that already in the era of the fully active 2.0 litre WRC they often said that left foot braking isn't needed if you set the diff maps right (at least on asphalt). After all the left foot braking wastes energy and adds heat to the brakes. In pure theory it shall be avoided. The new cars don't have the center diff and shall therefore behave more like an overpowered R5 car. It would be interesting to hear from the drivers how much they actually use it in them.
    Quote Originally Posted by AnttiL View Post
    There's a difference to using your left foot for braking (while not throttling) and doing the "left-foot-braking" which is used to balance the car to improve turn-in.

    From what I've heard from various interviews, Ogier's style is to brake before corner, roll through the corner and apply throttle upon reaching exit angle. Thus there's no simultaneous braking and throttling.

    Out of the current drivers Esapekka Lappi seems to be a heavy left-foot-braker, braking lights are alight while turning as well. Remember when he and Ogier were teammates at Citroen, they struggled to find suitable front diff ramps for Esapekka.
    Left-foot breaking is used for many reasons, as mentioned above. Third reason is the time it takes to move right foot from throttle and back just for breaking. So left-foot breaking I guess is used by every (fast) driver. Even driving RWD rallycars you perfectly can use left-foot breaking, if car has dogbox gerabox. However not at same time throttling in corners...
    "Reis vas pät pat kaar vas kut"
    Tommi Mäkinen, back in the years...

  2. #472
    Senior Member AnttiL's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Finland
    Posts
    9,625
    Like
    8,775
    Liked 10,522 Times in 4,616 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Rallyper View Post
    Left-foot breaking is used for many reasons, as mentioned above. Third reason is the time it takes to move right foot from throttle and back just for breaking. So left-foot breaking I guess is used by every (fast) driver. Even driving RWD rallycars you perfectly can use left-foot breaking, if car has dogbox gerabox. However not at same time throttling in corners...
    I tried to explain that these are two different things

    1. Using left foot to brake, but never braking and throttling at the same timebecause the cars don't need the clutch (your #3 falls into this same category).
    2. "Left-foot braking" as Rauno Aaltonen invented it in the 50's, to make the car shift weight to the front wheels and thus increasing grip and helping turn-in, and also on FWD cars it would make the rear wheels possibly lock and slide while the front wheels would still have torque. Also useful for early turbo engines to keep turbo rolling but still drive at slower speed

    #1 will still be useful for Rally1 cars. #2 is be a technique that will likely be used less.

  3. #473
    Senior Member Rallyper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Östhammar, Sweden
    Posts
    8,075
    Like
    5,620
    Liked 2,832 Times in 1,606 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by AnttiL View Post
    I tried to explain that these are two different things

    1. Using left foot to brake, but never braking and throttling at the same timebecause the cars don't need the clutch (your #3 falls into this same category).
    2. "Left-foot braking" as Rauno Aaltonen invented it in the 50's, to make the car shift weight to the front wheels and thus increasing grip and helping turn-in, and also on FWD cars it would make the rear wheels possibly lock and slide while the front wheels would still have torque. Also useful for early turbo engines to keep turbo rolling but still drive at slower speed

    #1 will still be useful for Rally1 cars. #2 is be a technique that will likely be used less.
    #2 Also giving FWD cars with no difflock getting both wheels work in corners (on winter and gravel conditions) by breaking same time as throttling. Maybe that was more of Aaltonen advantages than weight shifting...
    "Reis vas pät pat kaar vas kut"
    Tommi Mäkinen, back in the years...

  4. Likes: AnttiL (12th January 2022),TWRC (12th January 2022)
  5. #474
    Senior Member Rallyper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Östhammar, Sweden
    Posts
    8,075
    Like
    5,620
    Liked 2,832 Times in 1,606 Posts
    Breen off on PET.
    "Reis vas pät pat kaar vas kut"
    Tommi Mäkinen, back in the years...

  6. #475
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Posts
    126
    Like
    0
    Liked 5 Times in 5 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by AnttiL View Post
    Essentially yes. You are always entitled to hybrid boost on the start line. Subsequently you need to brake to regenerate power and recharge the battery to then deploy a new boost.

    And the driver can only switch off the hybrid boost for example on an icy section on a Monte stage with slicks.
    So for the video as also mentioned that the boost lenth depend on the lenth of of stage ,The total energy have only 100KW, Is there have the boost difference for each boost by the ECU?

    For 4KM stage, each boost have 130 HP,But for 40KM stage ,each boost have only 13 HP to saving more energy for the rest of the stage ??

  7. #476
    Senior Member AnttiL's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Finland
    Posts
    9,625
    Like
    8,775
    Liked 10,522 Times in 4,616 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Rallyper View Post
    #2 Also giving FWD cars with no difflock getting both wheels work in corners (on winter and gravel conditions) by breaking same time as throttling. Maybe that was more of Aaltonen advantages than weight shifting...
    Aaltonen explained this in a podcast last year. When he got into rallying (after circuit racing) he was told to use the handbrake to get the car turned in. He found this inconvenient, since his both arms were occupied by steering wheel and gear shift. But he noticed his left foot was unoccupied, and thought about using the brake, and it worked. The main effect in those days was to lock the rear wheels and get them sliding.

  8. #477
    Senior Member Rallyper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Östhammar, Sweden
    Posts
    8,075
    Like
    5,620
    Liked 2,832 Times in 1,606 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by AnttiL View Post
    Aaltonen explained this in a podcast last year. When he got into rallying (after circuit racing) he was told to use the handbrake to get the car turned in. He found this inconvenient, since his both arms were occupied by steering wheel and gear shift. But he noticed his left foot was unoccupied, and thought about using the brake, and it worked. The main effect in those days was to lock the rear wheels and get them sliding.
    Other effect described was most important driving Saabs in 70´s... however getting them locking rear breaks was also important, especially with very slippery conditions.
    "Reis vas pät pat kaar vas kut"
    Tommi Mäkinen, back in the years...

  9. Likes: AnttiL (12th January 2022)
  10. #478
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2021
    Posts
    1,026
    Like
    519
    Liked 585 Times in 308 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by AnttiL View Post
    2. "Left-foot braking" as Rauno Aaltonen invented it in the 50's, to make the car shift weight to the front wheels and thus increasing grip and helping turn-in, and also on FWD cars it would make the rear wheels possibly lock and slide while the front wheels would still have torque. Also useful for early turbo engines to keep turbo rolling but still drive at slower speed

    #2 is be a technique that will likely be used less.
    So no concerns that changes in diff set up and simpler suspension in the new cars will influence things?

    Might be worth being clear for anyone new to this that left-foot weight balancing happens even where there's no obvious left or right bend in the road or need to slow down. In XYZ axes through the car steering only takes care of Z. Roads go up/downhill, have cambers, ditches, subsidence and potholes, jumps and crests, variable traction, are infinitely describable and generally want to throw a moving car about, but is more pronounced on jacked and soft suspension.

    Within the context of the hybrid package it's irrelevant if you use left or right foot to slow the car. The biggest unknown is how often and how much the boost is available. We don't know if it's 150m or 5km per 15km stage, or 150m or 5km on the next 15km stage, or if there's enough to still be in use at speeds where lfb is mostly used following an acceleration assisted boost. Driving style talk may be insignificant!

  11. Likes: Rallyper (12th January 2022)
  12. #479
    Senior Member Fast Eddie WRC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    England
    Posts
    18,782
    Like
    3,417
    Liked 9,310 Times in 4,938 Posts
    Loeb hasn't had much testing in the Puma hybrid. But he may remember driving this car from 2008 !

    https://www.motorauthority.com/news/...ly-car-concept

  13. #480
    Senior Member Mirek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Prague / Eastern Bohemia
    Posts
    22,491
    Like
    7,821
    Liked 11,137 Times in 4,419 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Rallyper View Post
    Left-foot breaking is used for many reasons, as mentioned above. Third reason is the time it takes to move right foot from throttle and back just for breaking. So left-foot breaking I guess is used by every (fast) driver. Even driving RWD rallycars you perfectly can use left-foot breaking, if car has dogbox gerabox. However not at same time throttling in corners...
    I meant only simultaneous braking and pushing the throttle. Sorry if I was not clear.
    Stupid is as stupid does. Forrest Gump

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •