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  1. #1
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    Let's talk Mercedes

    I think the Mercedes deal with Hamilton is very revealing about Mercede's future in F1. While Petronas-Mercedes CEO Toto Woolf announced a one year contract for Hamilton. He indicated that Daimler Mercedes is moving its investment into their new electric programme. And he suggests as l have guessed before that they are consequentially reducing their investment in F1.

    This was fully expected with the advent of the new 2022 regulations, they have to find a proper technology challenge elsewhere.



    From a driver perspective, there are all manner of possibilities of change at Mercedes in 2022. As Bottas and Hamilton only have one year contracts up to the end of 2021 and George Russell coming to an end of his three year contract at Williams also at the end of 2021. The pairing at Mercedes for the 2022 season now seem uncertain. This uncertainty give us the suggestion that Hamilton may retire at the end of this season or possibly find a new challenge in another team. It also presents the possibility that George Russull might get his promotion into one of the Mercedes cars. In all of this, the future looks once again more uncertain for Bottas. Whom, mind you has been here before and survived.

    It is speculatively possible that Mercedes may field a completely new young driver lineup for the 2022. The question is which two? Russell seem very clearly a possibility. Could Ocon be recalled from Alpine or would Stoffel Vandoorne get his chance to return to F1? There is also the outside chance of a return of Wehrlein.
    Last edited by Nitrodaze; 9th February 2021 at 14:00.
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    Senior Member F1nKS's Avatar
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    If Hamilton retires after 2021. Why not go for Bottas/Russel for 2022 and then look to 2023 to go after Max. I have read that Toto would like to get Max under contract.

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    Quote Originally Posted by F1nKS View Post
    If Hamilton retires after 2021. Why not go for Bottas/Russel for 2022 and then look to 2023 to go after Max. I have read that Toto would like to get Max under contract.
    If the rumour of Verstapenn having a get out clause in his contract are true, chances are that he would be signed up at Mercedes in 2022 also. A Russell/Verstapenn pairing would be awesome for Mercedes. With the engine connumdrum at Redbull, there is every chance that Verstapenn would head to Mercedes at the slightest opportunity. Which would suggest that Hamilton is more likely to retire in 2022.
    Better a witty fool than a foolish wit.
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  6. Likes: Fortitude (18th February 2021)
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    Has the 2021 regulation worked against Mercedes or is this a flukey turn of event that has favoured Redbull? I think we have not seen the true potential of the W12. But it has enough gremlins to give Redbull a good chance to cause an upset.

    what do you think?????
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    Senior Member F1nKS's Avatar
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    I don't know what to think. F1 is really pushing the narrative - which sure to get people excited for the first race.

    My gut says the problem were real (but not as big as made out), but that because Mercedes where running the car for the first time and may have been sandbagging a little. Next week narrative will be how incredible Mercedes was to "recover". Wolff is comes across a little "1984ish" with the perpetual war to keep his organization motivated and never resting on the laurels.

    The question would be - if Mercedes has a fundamental problem, what do you think it is? Is it fixable? If so how quick can they fix it?

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    Senior Member Jag_Warrior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by F1nKS View Post
    Wolff is comes across a little "1984ish" with the perpetual war to keep his organization motivated and never resting on the laurels.
    Had to give a you a like just for that... one of my favorite books of all time. And in this case, I do think that there's some truth to it. It's much harder to remain strong when the enemy is weak than when he's worthy and powerful.

    I think that we know that Red Bull is for real (especially now). They have the pedigree, the money and the technical talent. The question I have is how will Mercedes meet this new challenge?
    "Every generation's memory is exactly as long as its own experience." --John Kenneth Galbraith

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    Senior Member F1nKS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jag_Warrior View Post
    Had to give a you a like just for that... one of my favorite books of all time. And in this case, I do think that there's some truth to it. It's much harder to remain strong when the enemy is weak than when he's worthy and powerful.

    I think that we know that Red Bull is for real (especially now). They have the pedigree, the money and the technical talent. The question I have is how will Mercedes meet this new challenge?
    I think they will meet the challenge. This I think is just invigorating for Hamilton.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jag_Warrior View Post
    I think that we know that Red Bull is for real (especially now). They have the pedigree, the money and the technical talent. The question I have is how will Mercedes meet this new challenge?
    Good question!

    But Mercedes has been here before. Remember, Ferrari were at one point just as fast and even faster in 2018 and 2019. they kept their head down and operated highly efficiently and won through. That said, Redbull is a different animal. They are more efficient than Ferrari and are likely to meet Mercedes on two key fronts:-

    Operational Efficiency:- They would need to be flawless throughout the season. Slopiness like Monaco a few years back or sub-standard engineering in the Perez garage would give the title to Mercedes. We know Mercedes would develop the car to be better at each race onwards, hence we have a development battle commencing as well. At some point, Mercedes would be directly on par and maybe ahead after a number of races. Really, Redbull needs to build as many points as possible while the grass is green for them. As they would spend the middle part of the season trying to hang on to whatever advantage they have accrued at the beginning of the season. Whichever team that goes into the last quarter of the season ahead in performance, is most likely to win one or both of the championships this season.

    Driver Consistency:- Verstappen has great speed which have seen but it takes more than speed to win. To beat Hamilton, he would need much more. He would need consistency, Perez close by to tackle Bottas and as few mistakes as possible. Even so, he still has a monumental challenge on his hands.

    I think this season, Mercedes has to answer the question of whether they can triumph within the budget constraints of the new regulations. So far, they seem to be adjusting to the concept. How well they are able to develop the car through the season within the budgetary constraints is what would decide if they succeed or not.

    At the moment, all eyes are on Redbull and Mercedes. Due to these budgetary constraints, it is possible for any team at the top of the midfield who manage their budget better as well as develop their cars effectively and efficiently through the season to mount an unlikely surge into the lead as the season develops. Though this is an outlier situation but is still highly likely. The grid has closed right up, the gap from tenth on the grid to pole is surmountable with technical development through the season.
    Last edited by Nitrodaze; 28th March 2021 at 15:25.
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    It is interesting that Mclaren's boss Zak Brown suggested that Verstappen would be in the Mercedes in 2022, much to the embarrassment of Toto Woolf and Christian Horner who were present. The seed had been planted, lets see what happens eh!
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    Senior Member F1nKS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitrodaze View Post
    It is interesting that Mclaren's boss Zak Brown suggested that Verstappen would be in the Mercedes in 2022, much to the embarrassment of Toto Woolf and Christian Horner who were present. The seed had been planted, lets see what happens eh!
    It seems Brown was just trying to stir the pot. I would assume that Mercedes first choice would be Russell to replace Bottas since he is part of the Mercedes program and is out of a contract.

    Therefore it would take Hamilton to retire for them to bring in Max, but does Mercedes want to 2 - Alphas? Unless Hamilton is just wanting to move on to something else, he still has some good years left.

    But If Mercedes did choose Max over Russell, Red Bull wouldn't be that bad off with Russell and Perez as a team.

    Also there is the question of salary cap coming in - which I have heard both ways it will and won't be implemented.

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