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  1. #1
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    Had Vettel gone to Mercedes!

    I heard an interesting comment from Damon Hill today. He said, had Vettel gone to Mercedes in 2013, he may have matched Schumacher's Seven titles as well as Hamilton. With 3 titles away from the benchmark, we could argue that he may have done it. But then again, maybe not. My hesitance is a niggling question of whether Vettel would have dominated Rosberg to win most of the driver championships?

    I think Rosberg may have been a real headache for Vettel. Chances are that, it may have turned out to be 50:50 with Vettel reaching the heady seven titles and Rosberg winning close to four titles in the process. It could also swing the other way with Rosberg dominating and winning between 5 to seven titles. We would never really know?

    What l am certain about is that, Vettel is unlikely to dominate Rosberg as Hamilton has done. Hence, there is realistically a good chance that Rosberg may have come out of that situation with multiple titles and may still be racing today. That said, l also think Vettel is good enough to reach the Seven title threshold in a Mercedes with either Rosberg of Bottas in the other car.

    What do you think?
    Last edited by Nitrodaze; 28th November 2020 at 15:18.
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    I rate Rosberg higher than Vettel overall too but then again Vettels style does seem to lend him particularly well to cars with a very planted rear end (ie; RB - blown diffuser) in which case he can compete with the very best of them.
    I guess the question is.. has the Merc been that car to suit him for the last 7 years?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zico View Post
    I rate Rosberg higher than Vettel overall too but then again Vettels style does seem to lend him particularly well to cars with a very planted rear end (ie; RB - blown diffuser) in which case he can compete with the very best of them.
    I guess the question is.. has the Merc been that car to suit him for the last 7 years?
    We would never know for sure. But l have a feeling that he may have been rapid in the Mercedes, but so was Rosberg.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitrodaze View Post
    We would never know for sure. But l have a feeling that he may have been rapid in the Mercedes, but so was Rosberg.

    Agreed, I was about to say.. perhaps the Racing Point, being essentially a Merc clone, it might provide an indication of that... but with the fairly big reg changes next year, maybe its not really indicative after all.

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    The Vettel that we once knew, I would have bet the farm on to beat Rosberg overall (Rosberg may have taken a couple of WDC off him). But Lewis tends to set the car up loose, and now we know how much Vettel can't deal with such a setup. Rosberg, also able to deal with a loose car, might have been able to match Vettel more often than not. Hard to say. But as you guys have said, we'll never know. Still, hard to believe how far and fast Vettel's star has fallen.
    "Every generation's memory is exactly as long as its own experience." --John Kenneth Galbraith

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    Speculating is fun - because none of us can be proven wrong :-)
    If Vettel went to join Rosberg, where does that leave Hamilton? Maybe he would have jumped ship from McLaren to Ferrari, instead of McLaren to Mercedes. Maybe he would have dragged some sponsorship with him and solidified a team around him that is just as strong as Mercedes is now. Maybe he'd still have his 7 WDC and Rosberg would have none...........

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitrodaze View Post
    I heard an interesting comment from Damon Hill today. He said, had Vettel gone to Mercedes in 2013, he may have matched Schumacher's Seven titles as well as Hamilton. With 3 titles away from the benchmark, we could argue that he may have done it. But then again, maybe not. My hesitance is a niggling question of whether Vettel would have dominated Rosberg to win most of the driver championships?

    I think Rosberg may have been a real headache for Vettel. Chances are that, it may have turned out to be 50:50 with Vettel reaching the heady seven titles and Rosberg winning close to four titles in the process. It could also swing the other way with Rosberg dominating and winning between 5 to seven titles. We would never really know?

    What l am certain about is that, Vettel is unlikely to dominate Rosberg as Hamilton has done. Hence, there is realistically a good chance that Rosberg may have come out of that situation with multiple titles and may still be racing today. That said, l also think Vettel is good enough to reach the Seven title threshold in a Mercedes with either Rosberg of Bottas in the other car.

    What do you think?
    Something I have thought about before and I think Rosberg would have beaten Vettel every year. Rosberg was about 0.25 seconds a lap slower than Hamilton on average, I think Vettel would be about 0.4 seconds off Hamilton. Iíll reiterate that I think Rosberg was one of the best drivers of the last 15 years, he was just up against someone that was quite incredibly strong.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Firstgear View Post
    Speculating is fun - because none of us can be proven wrong :-)
    If Vettel went to join Rosberg, where does that leave Hamilton? Maybe he would have jumped ship from McLaren to Ferrari, instead of McLaren to Mercedes. Maybe he would have dragged some sponsorship with him and solidified a team around him that is just as strong as Mercedes is now. Maybe he'd still have his 7 WDC and Rosberg would have none...........
    That is a fair point. If Hamilton had gone to Ferrari and Vettel to Mercedes, there was a good chance that Hamilton may have won those years when the Ferrari was on par or faster than the Mercedes. I think 2017, 2018 and 2019 may have been a great opportunity for Hamilton in the ferrari to win championships. Which may have left 2014 to 2016 as seasons available to Vettel to win in other to match Schumacher. Of course, if he were able to dominate Rosberg.

    I have serious doubts that Vettel would have been able to dominate Rosberg in such a way as to win three straight titles. If we go by what transpired between Hamilton and Rosberg, we would say that Vettel may have only won two out of three by the end of 2019. But 2020, with Ferrari down on power may have provided Vettel another opportunity to level up to the requisite seven title. Provided that Rosburg was no longer in Mercedes and Bottas in his current form is in the second car. And this is the most favourable perspective to Vettel winning seven titles. Chances are that Bottas or Rosburg [if still around] may have won the 2020 season, which would leave Vettel with six or less titles. And Schumacher's benchmark may have still been unbroken today.

    It just brings into perspective how exceptional Hamilton is.
    Last edited by Nitrodaze; 30th November 2020 at 12:12.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Black Knight View Post
    Something I have thought about before and I think Rosberg would have beaten Vettel every year. Rosberg was about 0.25 seconds a lap slower than Hamilton on average, I think Vettel would be about 0.4 seconds off Hamilton. I’ll reiterate that I think Rosberg was one of the best drivers of the last 15 years, he was just up against someone that was quite incredibly strong.
    Unfortunately, Vettel does not measure up well to a strong opposition in the same car. The very strong mental resolve of Rosberg may have subdued Vettel as Ricciado and Leclec has done. Hence, l am inclined to agree with you on this.

    Whichever way we look at this, it would seem that it is unlikely that Vettel may have matched Schumacher's seven titles, even in a Mercedes. Luck aside of course.
    Last edited by Nitrodaze; 2nd December 2020 at 12:30.
    Better a witty fool than a foolish wit.
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  11. #10
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    I think Rosberg would have bettered Vettel. On pure driving skills, probably very close. But the fact that Rosberg had the mental game to challenge and finally beat Lewis showed that his head game was a lot stronger than Seb's IMHO. I've always seen Seb somewhat like Alonso in that respect, but in Seb's case it just gets farther into his head.

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