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  1. #1101
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    Quote Originally Posted by tommeke_B View Post
    Especially a few weeks after Rally Croatia, where he was beating both Mikkelsen and Ostberg. Both happen to have factory support and who sit in their Rally2-cars almost weekly for development tests.
    As others pointed out Gryazin has actually much more seat time than anyone else, probably only Neuville and Tanak had more between Arctic and Croatia.

    in WRC2:

    Gryazin -2 tarmac raliles (2 days in CZ, 1 in Hungary), dunno about testing before those rallies + test before Croatia
    Østberg - 1 day rally in Hungary, 1 day? development test in France
    Mikkelsen - 3 day test before Croatia
    Suninen - 2? day test before Croatia


    But I agree that he certainly has speed.

    With regards to "beating" anyone, he led WRC2 for 2 stages before his first mistake and his results from Croatia is exactly 0. While the PowerSteering wasn't his fault the other 5+ moments including crash were.
    Last edited by mknight; 9th May 2021 at 10:14.

  2. #1102
    Senior Member Andre Oliveira's Avatar
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    Gryazin test a lot. Some times with two cars at same time. Crazy.

  3. Likes: cali (10th May 2021),pantealex (10th May 2021)
  4. #1103
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    Quote Originally Posted by tommeke_B View Post
    Maybe you're living in a different world, but saying he has no natural speed makes no sense. Especially a few weeks after Rally Croatia, where he was beating both Mikkelsen and Ostberg. Both happen to have factory support and who sit in their Rally2-cars almost weekly for development tests.
    Have you ever noticed that the richest kids usually seem te be the fastest in the lower categories?

    And have you noticed that none of the rich kids has been able to beat the poor discovered talents like loeb or ogier?

    Money can buy you experience, and experience can make up for a lot of talent. But at the highest level money suddenly becomes useless.

    Mikkelsen and ostberg are the same as gryazin, they got into the wrc because of their money instead of their raw talent.
    And that's why they are no longer in the wrc, they couldn't make the final step to actually fight to be champion. They are good nr2 drivers who might eventually win a few rallies, but if they face real talented competition they will never be world champion.

    Thats why i still have doubt by rovanpera or solberg. They got so far due to their father, now it's up to them to make the final most difficult step.

    We'll have to wait and see to find out who will be the future champions.

  5. Likes: WRC1 (10th May 2021)
  6. #1104
    Senior Member AnttiL's Avatar
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    Talents like Grönholm, Loeb, Ogier or Tänak are something that we get only about one per decade. Meanwhile, the "best of the rich kids" like Latvala, Hirvonen, Mikkelsen etc. got often very close to those extraordinary talents. At the same time there's many "rich kids" who end up being Matthew Wilson or Gus Greensmith.

    And if we compare the progress of Rovanperä and Solberg to the likes of Mikkelsen and Latvala, it's already different, they have been fast in the lower classes and fast on their top class debuts. In the end it's down to luck whether they will be champions or not. And also who they are driving against.

  7. Likes: EstWRC (11th May 2021),Mirek (10th May 2021),pantealex (10th May 2021)
  8. #1105
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    Well I share denkimi's doubts about whether Solberg (he only ever won one rally with R5 in different categories) and Rovanpera (slower gravel) can be regular championship competitors.
    (It's also problematic to compare them with Latvala or Mikkelsen when these basically started first rallies in a WRC car since that was the "way" to WRC for "rich kids" those days. Today the normal way is Rally2 (Gryazin, Veiby ...._).The rich kid Mikkelsen got to paid WRC drive by winning IRC two years in a row btw. ..anyway that's a digression.)


    But I find it weird how much hostility there is against drivers who are not Ogier or Loeb. Anyone who can regularly compete on podium and win some rallies totally "deserves" to be in WRC no matter how they got there. There is a rather big difference in performance between those drivers and guys like Matthew Wilson or A. Warmbold.

    As AnntiL correctly points out it's also a lot about "luck" in whom you compete with and in what car:

    Hirvonen was really close to beating Loeb for example. Latvala could have easily been a champion were it not for Ogier.
    Recently Tanak and Evans are perfect examples. If Tanak went to Hyundai from 2018 would he be getting mentioned in same sentence with Ogier these days? I doubt it....or what if he went to Citroen and ended like Lappi after 2019?
    Similarly Evans was considered "almost" guy and many people saw him out of WRC at end of 2018 when he did one good rally while Ogier won championship in same car. Then imagine if for example in Monza the temperature on that Saturday stage was 1 degree warmer and snow would melt instead of staying on the road... he would be champion. Is that one crash difference (Evans, Hirvonen) all that it takes for them to be "unworthy"?

  9. Likes: Corcaíoch (10th May 2021),skarderud (10th May 2021)
  10. #1106
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    FerGus Greensmith is great example that even with money you can´t buy titles in lower classes.
    "quattro best 4wd rallycar ever"

  11. Likes: tommeke_B (10th May 2021)
  12. #1107
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    I think in the lower categories, sometimes the so called rich kids can look fast because they can afford to push harder in the knowledge that they can afford to fix the car if they crash.
    That said, being a rich kid doesn’t preclude them from being very good in their own right and plenty of them have become very effective drivers.
    Just because someone comes from money doesn’t mean they aren’t at the very top level, not WRC but Senna came from money but isn’t talked about as a rich kid.
    For the likes of Grayzin, his advantage is the seat time he gets, which in modern motorsport is very rare. That advantage could see him become a very good level driver through practice alone.

  13. #1108
    Senior Member skarderud's Avatar
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    Some rumours about Stellantis (Lanca/FCA/PSA) will be back to wrc again.
    Not with Citröen, but one of the other brands.
    So: Peugeot, Opel, Fiat, Lancia?

    Lancia back to WRC? Would been nice.

    Sent fra min SM-G950F via Tapatalk
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    KNA Lillehammer Motorsport

  14. Likes: cali (12th May 2021),Rally Hokkaido (12th May 2021)
  15. #1109
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    Lancia would make sense only if they would like to completely reset to brand, and I don't think that would happen. My random guess is Opel with their Mokka

  16. #1110
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    Peugeot has begun releasing cars under a performance PSE badge, starting with a hybrid wagon. I'd wager it is the most likely candidate.

    Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

  17. Likes: cali (12th May 2021),skarderud (12th May 2021),the sniper (12th May 2021)

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