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  1. #51
    Senior Member N. Jones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitrodaze View Post
    What a race by Perez. At this race, Perez simply put the finger up to Racing Point for letting him go. Fourth, with Stroll crashed out, is as clear a "F@ck You Racing Point" as he could possibly hope to state.

    At some point in the future, they would miss him.
    Hopefully he and Hulkenberg will sign at Haas and turn that team around.
    " Lady - I'm in an awful dilemma.
    Moe - Yeah, I never cared much for these foreign cars either."

  2. Likes: truefan72 (28th September 2020)
  3. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by N. Jones View Post
    I will admit that Michael was protected when he was at Ferrari. I will also admit Michael Jordan was protected during his time in the NBA. That doesn't mean they should not have been punished for breaking the rules. It's a rule, he broke. If you, or Mercedes, can show me that others drivers have done this without a time penalty then I will be with you in defending him. Otherwise he got a penalty.
    Actually, l have researched the practise starts for races going back to the start opf the 2014 era. And l can tell you that this rule has been regularly broken without sanction on many occasions. It is one of those things that drivers have ignored on many occasions and the stewards have ignored.

    These stewards have taken issue with it because it is Lewis Hamilton doing it. Plain and simple. The chaps at Mercedes that instructed Hamilton that it was ok to do so, were aware that it is something that was on many occasions done by other teams and drivers.
    Better a witty fool than a foolish wit.
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  4. #53
    Senior Member truefan72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by N. Jones View Post
    I will admit that Michael was protected when he was at Ferrari. I will also admit Michael Jordan was protected during his time in the NBA. That doesn't mean they should not have been punished for breaking the rules. It's a rule, he broke. If you, or Mercedes, can show me that others drivers have done this without a time penalty then I will be with you in defending him. Otherwise he got a penalty.
    I donít think anyone is arguing he broke some rule ( as arbitrary and useless it is for a reconnaissance lap on the way to the grid ) but rather how the stewards decided to deal with this mildest of infractions. Verstappen, Vettel, LeClerc, Ricciardo, and others all have come out in defense of Hamilton and the absurdity of the ruling.
    They chose to be beyond harsh and unprecedented in their ruling on this matter but did nothing for leclerc ending strolls race, for Sainz truly doing something dangerous like flooring it through the bollard section, slamming into the wall and causing a major incident, or Grosjean trashing the bollards and not only failing to go through them but also causing a safety issue by blasting them. All those issues happened in race but got nothing but Jamilton got slammed with. 10s penalty. One they didnít even see fit to review properly by alleging they didnít access the publicly available radio communication (or rather ignored it) causing them to reverse course after the damage is done. Anyway you look at it this was a travesty and a naked attempt to try and impede Hamilton by any means they could

  5. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitrodaze View Post
    At least understand the situation before you comment. The penalty was given after both practise starts had occurred, so there would be no additional time loss involved. The infraction happened on the way to the grid, hence before the race had started. Such situation are normally dealt with after the race, but on this very rare occasion, it was penalized in the race. Which everyone found to be very odd in itself. More odd is that they penalized him twice with two 5 seconds stop and go penalties during the race which effectively killed the action in the sharp end of the race and initially slammed him with 2 points on is super licence.

    The important thing to note is that, we the audience, have been cheated out of some interesting action brewing from the start. They killed the enjoyment of the race. It turned out to be a very boring race in the end.

    That was the harshest possible punishment the stewards are allowed to levy on any discretionary breach of the rules. The situation clearly indicate that they were heavy handed, they could not wait until after the race, as they should. But were very anxious to impose a punishment as soon as possible to mess with Hamilton's race. More so, they imposed a hefty time penalty to ensure his race was properly stymed. If they could get away with it, they would have also extend their damage to the drivers championship by bringing Hamilton to within 2 points of a race ban, which would have made him very vulnerable in the drivers championship.

    I get you don't like Hamilton and you are very clearly unsympathetic to his race, but you must have a sense of justice.
    Hey, it's you who's trying his very best to be a fanboy here, not me.
    If you want to make wild claims about racist stewards and imaginary interesting action like that, you better have evidence to support them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nitrodaze View Post
    Actually, l have researched the practise starts for races going back to the start opf the 2014 era. And l can tell you that this rule has been regularly broken without sanction on many occasions. It is one of those things that drivers have ignored on many occasions and the stewards have ignored.

    These stewards have taken issue with it because it is Lewis Hamilton doing it. Plain and simple. The chaps at Mercedes that instructed Hamilton that it was ok to do so, were aware that it is something that was on many occasions done by other teams and drivers.
    Right, show me who, where and when has broken that rule without being punished for it.

    I admit it's the first time i ever heard of that rule, but since everyone but hamilton seems to have been aware about it, i assume it's well known amongst the drivers and teams.

  6. Likes: N4D13 (28th September 2020)
  7. #55
    Senior Member truefan72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitrodaze View Post
    Actually, l have researched the practise starts for races going back to the start opf the 2014 era. And l can tell you that this rule has been regularly broken without sanction on many occasions. It is one of those things that drivers have ignored on many occasions and the stewards have ignored.

    These stewards have taken issue with it because it is Lewis Hamilton doing it. Plain and simple. The chaps at Mercedes that instructed Hamilton that it was ok to do so, were aware that it is something that was on many occasions done by other teams and drivers.
    I was going to do that myself. Glad you did the research.
    This was a very transparent effort to impede Hamilton.
    There really is nothing else to be aid on the matter.
    And those folks who are talking about rules this and that, know full well, they never had, nor likely will ever have an issue with a practice start for cars on the way to the grid.
    oh well. The damage has been done quite unfairly and the stewarding continues to be a joke.
    They were so giddy to levy out a penalty to Hamilton, they disregarded the actual radio communication and were too busy doing that to even pay attention to actual race incidents that resulted in safety cars, VSC and freakin hazardous conditions at full race speed to other drivers. But yeah...lets focus on Hamilton leaving the garage on his way to the grid that affected nobody prior to the race.
    you can't argue with results. 2019 FGP 2nd Place ;)

  8. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitrodaze View Post
    Actually, l have researched the practise starts for races going back to the start opf the 2014 era. And l can tell you that this rule has been regularly broken without sanction on many occasions. It is one of those things that drivers have ignored on many occasions and the stewards have ignored.

    How/where did you find historical data on drivers practice starts? I cant find anything at all..

    From what I've read, It seems to differ from event to event and covered in the Race Directors pre event notes rather than by the sporting regulations. It's by the by though... According to Wolf no one has ever been given a race penalty for something that happened pre race, I dont doubt him. In which case It's pretty clear they are trying to impede him. What I. mightdisagree with you on is why


    Quote Originally Posted by Nitrodaze View Post
    These stewards have taken issue with it because it is Lewis Hamilton doing it. Plain and simple. The chaps at Mercedes that instructed Hamilton that it was ok to do so, were aware that it is something that was on many occasions done by other teams and drivers.

    Dont you think they are maybe just trying to impede him because they dont want the championship to be over at this stage?
    Lewis doesn't believe its personal or because of his BLM antics, as you put it. What makes you think that?

  9. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zico View Post
    How/where did you find historical data on drivers practice starts? I cant find anything at all..

    From what I've read, It seems to differ from event to event and covered in the Race Directors pre event notes rather than by the sporting regulations. It's by the by though... According to Wolf no one has ever been given a race penalty for something that happened pre race, I dont doubt him. In which case It's pretty clear they are trying to impede him. What I. mightdisagree with you on is why





    Dont you think they are maybe just trying to impede him because they dont want the championship to be over at this stage?
    Lewis doesn't believe its personal or because of his BLM antics, as you put it. What makes you think that?
    I have race recordings going back to 2010 on the hard drive of my skybox. I shall load them on here or on youtube when l figure out how to get them into my computer. I have watched the practise starts during Practise 1, 2 and 3. And on the way to the grid. You would be surprised how frequently this rule has been broken by drivers without as much as a warning.

    The "so called" designated place for doing race start has been typically used as a place for the drivers to place their cars before the pit lane is open, if they intend to do a practise start after the track light goes green. The idea being to keep them out of the way of other cars not wanting to practise but wishing to head out to the track directly.

    You would think Mika Salo would know that.
    Last edited by Nitrodaze; 28th September 2020 at 18:17.
    Better a witty fool than a foolish wit.
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  10. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by denkimi View Post
    Hey, it's you who's trying his very best to be a fanboy here, not me.
    If you want to make wild claims about racist stewards and imaginary interesting action like that, you better have evidence to support them.
    Firstly, you would not find anywhere in my post where l have called the stewards racists. You have made that up. You very quick to call people fanboys. You are not capable of any form of analytical opinion, so you turn to insult and name calling.

    I shall ignore your post from now on d*ckh@ad.
    Better a witty fool than a foolish wit.
    William Shakespeare

  11. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitrodaze View Post
    I have race recordings going back to 2010 on the hard drive of my skybox. I shall load them on here or on youtube when l fugure out how to get them into my computer. I have watched the practise starts during Practise 1, 2 and 3. And on the way to the grid. You would be surprised how frequently this rule has been broken by drivers without as much as a warning.
    Its ok, you dont have to, I believe you. Its pretty obvious they are trying to impede him without even seeing that.


    Meanwhile LeClerc wasn't even investigated after hitting Stroll and ending his race.. go figure.

  12. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zico View Post
    Dont you think they are maybe just trying to impede him because they dont want the championship to be over at this stage?
    Lewis doesn't believe its personal or because of his BLM antics, as you put it. What makes you think that?
    I hinted that it probably is because of the BLM. I did not say it is why he was victimized. I buy the idea that they probably do not want the season to be resolved quickly. Such is Hamilton's domination this season, it is problematic.

    I have to say l have been rooting for Verstapenn since the season started, when it became clear the Ferrari had lost its mojo. We all want a hard fought championship. And we looked to Bottas V3.0 to turn up this season and really give Hamilton a proper fight for the title. Bottas failed to step up as a genuine title contender. He certainly did not quite reach the Rosberg standard required to give Hamiltion the pressure needed to make this a well fought season. Verstapenn had a number of setbacks, of no fault of his own; that has kept him out of the title fight.

    What we have ended up with is a runaway stream train that is Hamilton, cruising to the 2020 title. The fact is, Hamilton has set a very high standard; equivalent to the very high standard that Mercedes has set to the other teams. Like Mercedes, Hamilton is winning because the other drivers have not been able to raise their game to his uncomprisingly high level. Probably except Verstapenn who is clearly curtailed by the quality of the car he is in.

    When Hamilton had his two setbacks, Boittas and Verstapenn failed to capitalize on it. Which essentially made the gap between Hamilton and his nearest rival to be so great. in a sense, we cannot blame Hamilton for the competition not being able to match his level of performance.

    Whatever the case, this is not the way to do it. It is ugly and shamefull.
    Last edited by Nitrodaze; 28th September 2020 at 20:05.
    Better a witty fool than a foolish wit.
    William Shakespeare

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