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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitrodaze View Post
    At least understand the situation before you comment. The penalty was given after both practise starts had occurred, so there would be no additional time loss involved. The infraction happened on the way to the grid, hence before the race had started. Such situation are normally dealt with after the race, but on this very rare occasion, it was penalized in the race. Which everyone found to be very odd in itself. More odd is that they penalized him twice with two 5 seconds stop and go penalties during the race which effectively killed the action in the sharp end of the race and initially slammed him with 2 points on is super licence.

    The important thing to note is that, we the audience, have been cheated out of some interesting action brewing from the start. They killed the enjoyment of the race. It turned out to be a very boring race in the end.

    That was the harshest possible punishment the stewards are allowed to levy on any discretionary breach of the rules. The situation clearly indicate that they were heavy handed, they could not wait until after the race, as they should. But were very anxious to impose a punishment as soon as possible to mess with Hamilton's race.
    But if the stewards had indeed waited until after the race, and then handed out a time penalty, then Mercedes would - and rightly so - be the first to complain that they didn't have a chance to react during the race by building a larger gap.

    And I think we have seen in-race penalties for pre-race infractions before, like mechanics failing to clear the grid in time or drivers leaving a closed pit lane.
    Oct. 31, 1999 - one of the blackest days in motorsports.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by gm99 View Post
    But if the stewards had indeed waited until after the race, and then handed out a time penalty, then Mercedes would - and rightly so - be the first to complain that they didn't have a chance to react during the race by building a larger gap.

    And I think we have seen in-race penalties for pre-race infractions before, like mechanics failing to clear the grid in time or drivers leaving a closed pit lane.
    Actually, on the contrary. Mercedes and Hamilton would have been better placed to present evidence in defence of the decision to do a practise start where they did. If any penalty was due, they would have been given the appropriate level of punishment which nobody would have disputed. Whatever that was, is what it would have been.

    The sort of infractions that you discribed are all in the regulations and the regulation stipulate exactly how they should be handled.
    Last edited by Nitrodaze; 29th September 2020 at 00:52.
    Better a witty fool than a foolish wit.
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  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitrodaze View Post
    Actually, on the contrary. Mercedes and Hamilton would have been better placed to present evidence in defence of the decision to do a practise start where they did. If any penalty was due, they would have been given the appropriate level of punishment which nobody have would disputed. Whatever that was, is what it would have been.
    So if Hamilton had crossed the finish line eight seconds ahead of Bottas and 9,5 ahead of Verstappen and then been given a ten-second penalty after the race (and after the podium ceremony) , you really think "nobody would have disputed" it? I can just imagine Lewis saying "Oh, it is what it is, never mind, here's the winner's trophy Valtteri, cheerio mate!"
    Oct. 31, 1999 - one of the blackest days in motorsports.

  4. #64
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    So , why did he do that , anyway ?

    He , presumably , was there for the stewards meeting before the race and received the specific instruction as to where he could perform the practice start .
    So , again , I ask why .


    I saw a quote from the team saying they thought the stewards would take a dim view as soon as they saw it .
    So , it seems they didn't understand either .

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bagwan View Post
    So , why did he do that , anyway ?

    He , presumably , was there for the stewards meeting before the race and received the specific instruction as to where he could perform the practice start .
    So , again , I ask why .


    I saw a quote from the team saying they thought the stewards would take a dim view as soon as they saw it .
    So , it seems they didn't understand either .
    What are you talking about now? That all the drivers were told during the stewards meeting where to practise start? And the racing director notes that suggest it was ok was somehow incorrect. Or that you have been showing serious dislike for Hamilton for a while now.

    I can only take your point of view seriously if it is an objective opinion supported with good evidence. Otherwise you are just peddling prejudice.
    Last edited by Nitrodaze; 29th September 2020 at 00:51.
    Better a witty fool than a foolish wit.
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  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by gm99 View Post
    So if Hamilton had crossed the finish line eight seconds ahead of Bottas and 9,5 ahead of Verstappen and then been given a ten-second penalty after the race (and after the podium ceremony) , you really think "nobody would have disputed" it? I can just imagine Lewis saying "Oh, it is what it is, never mind, here's the winner's trophy Valtteri, cheerio mate!"
    I am saying they would have given Hamilton a fair and proper punishment with the benefit of having all the information to hand. If they had done so before the race, the outcome may well have turned out to be what you have described in the end. It is what it is!

    What everyone is protesting is the unprecedented heavy handedness of the punishment for a harmless and safe situation. If you have any sense of justice at all, l am sure you would see that. He should be punished fairly is all l am saying. What we saw was far from fair or just.
    Last edited by Nitrodaze; 29th September 2020 at 07:34.
    Better a witty fool than a foolish wit.
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  7. Likes: truefan72 (30th September 2020)
  8. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by denkimi View Post
    Oh quit whining you bunch of fanboys.
    Lewis broke the rules, so he got a penalty. He broke them again, so he got another penalty.

    There is only one person to blame, and that's the guy who told him on the radio to break those rules.
    Iíve no issue with the timed penalty, itís the two penalty points that were completely over the top.

  9. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by N. Jones View Post
    I will admit that Michael was protected when he was at Ferrari. I will also admit Michael Jordan was protected during his time in the NBA. That doesn't mean they should not have been punished for breaking the rules. It's a rule, he broke. If you, or Mercedes, can show me that others drivers have done this without a time penalty then I will be with you in defending him. Otherwise he got a penalty.
    I actually donít think he did break the rules. Where he did his practice starts were within the letter of the law. This is the hairy fairy grey area Iíve always hated about F1 where stewards decide ad hoc to impose penalties and it always boils my piss. If the stewards or FIA impose a rule and a competitor sticks to that rule but not in exactly the way that was intended then thatís on the Stewards and FIA to clarify moving forward, itís not right for the competitor to be punished because the Stewards or FIA didnít think it through enough. Itís part of sport that a competitor stretches the rules, itís the governing bodyís place to ensure the rules are robust enough that only their interpretation can be applied without breaking the rules.

  10. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitrodaze View Post
    What are you talking about now? That all the drivers were told during the stewards meeting where to practise start? And the racing director notes that suggest it was ok was somehow incorrect. Or that you have been showing serious dislike for Hamilton for a while now.

    I can only take your point of view seriously if it is an objective opinion supported with good evidence. Otherwise you are just peddling prejudice.
    What are you on about ?

    What is prejudiced about asking why he went much farther out than anyone else to do his practice start ?

    Is there some advantage to be gained by doing it differently ?

    I'm just trying to understand why he actually did it , not throwing rocks at him .

  11. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitrodaze View Post
    What are you talking about now? That all the drivers were told during the stewards meeting where to practise start? And the racing director notes that suggest it was ok was somehow incorrect. Or that you have been showing serious dislike for Hamilton for a while now.

    I can only take your point of view seriously if it is an objective opinion supported with good evidence. Otherwise you are just peddling prejudice.
    Dazey, you shouldn't be so quick to pull out the Haters card. Looks to me like Baggy is asking an honest question. As for your question: "That all the drivers were told during the stewards meeting where to practise start?"

    Looks like the answer is yes. A quote from an article on another site has the following:
    Attached Images Attached Images

  12. Likes: Bagwan (29th September 2020),gm99 (29th September 2020),pantealex (29th September 2020)

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