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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by truefan72 View Post
    Protest by its very nature is meant to disrupt the status quo and provoke conversation.
    The problem with designating "a time and place" for it, is that folks tune out and don't get to consider the issue.
    ESPN used to show the moment of silence and campaign before the race, but lately they just cut to commercials and come back right as they are already in their cars, thus negating the impact.
    One can react 3 ways to the valid protest that Hamilton is trying to raise awareness of.
    1. Ask questions, try and understand why there is a need for this protest, and understand the real issue at hand
    2. Be annoyed, complain about the inconvenience of having to be subjected to a troubling reality for many people who look just like him who are murdered/shot.abused week after week with no justice in sight...which prompted the entire protest in the first place.
    3. Be triggered and completely misunderstand what is actually going on and actively try and be an antagonist or actually be heartless enough to consider themselves in line with that kind of oppression, systemic abuse and racism.

    Everyone who cares and has a platform is doing their part to raise awareness and shake people out of the comfort of "it is not my problem, I just want to watch sports" mentality.
    Naomi Osaka showed true conviction in her peaceful protest at the US Open and life as we know it hasn't ended, we are now just a bit more aware of the systemic abuses whether we acknowledge it or not, even if it makes certain people uncomfortable and unable to continue denying that these issues exist.
    The NBA, NASCAR, IndyCar, NFL, EPL and many other leagues have significant accommodations to allow peaceful protest so seeing Hamilton wear a t-shirt that asks for a singular and particular action to be taken against a real travesty of justice should not be offensive.

    I also think labeling it political is a mistake. This isn't a political issue for or against a particular political entity or system of government, it is a humanity issue and asking for justice in a particular incident. I honestly believe some folks would have an issue no matter what he did even if he had a t-shirt saying stop (or convict the perpetrators of) child-abuse, rape, slavery or murder.

    I implore you not to be triggered but to actually use it as an opportunity to understand why there is a need to highlight that and confront why you feel that way about the situation. We are all mature enough to be able to watch a race and think about things as well. If you can get bombarded by commercials then you can deal with this too. At the very worst, just observe and be empathetic without the need to make it about your discomfort or protocols of decorum were broken (designed not to offend the commercial interests rather than any ethical reason)
    See that a peaceful and respectful protest on a huge platform is a good thing and should be commended.
    He still drives phenomenally and puts on a good show, displays ultimate professionalism and stays out of trouble. Is well paid and lives a good life but still feels compelled to help seek justice. So a few moments of dignified protest shouldn't bother you but be applauded. Its not political, it's humane.

    And that is all I'll say about this.
    What an eloquent piece you have written. I could not write it better for the sake of my anger at the surprising display of indifference to the difficulties facing a vast number of people that we share this planet with. That we share our nations, cities and streets with. It is just a surprising show of inhumane sentiment that demonstrates where the sort of mentalities that brought about human conflicts in antiquity originated from. With the information and higher knowledge available to us in this day and age, we should know better and care better for our fellow human beings, but many don't.

    Hence, l commend you highly for your lovely post.
    Last edited by Nitrodaze; 14th September 2020 at 19:29.
    Better a witty fool than a foolish wit.
    William Shakespeare

  2. #102
    Senior Member Tazio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bagwan View Post
    This is not whether the protest "bothered" anyone .
    It is wholly about whether it is allowed in the regulations .

    I believe it is not .
    You are correct Baggie!
    the FIA has launched an investigation into Hamilton's shirt. Drivers and teams are not allowed to make political statements on the circuit. If the text can indeed be seen as a political statement, the 35-year-old Briton will in all likelihood receive a fine.
    I think "The Boss" knew he would likely get a fine and thought that the action was good on balance.



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    May the forza be with you

  3. Likes: truefan72 (14th September 2020)
  4. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitrodaze View Post
    Bagwan, you are coming across as someone who is nonchalant to this pressing issue of resolving racial brutality to people of colour. The regulations is not that important in the face of these humanity deficiencies. It doesn't affect you or anyone you know hence l understand you cannot relate to it on a personal level. But you must make allowance for it on a humanitarian level and place you or your children in that position. And imagine how you would feel. If can feel that it is alright for you to personally be subjected to racial brutality, then ok, you have a point. Otherwise, please just bear the moment as it takes you out of your comfort zone for only a short while.
    You are making assumptions about me that are absolutely baseless .
    If you read the post you quoted again , perhaps you'll see that I , clearly , made no comment on his words , but only on the regulations .

    You , Nitrodaze , are coming across as someone who is calling me out as a racist .

    The FIA is investigating the action , so we'll see if they will regard it as a breach of podium protocol or not .

  5. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tazio View Post
    You are correct Baggie!

    I think "The Boss" knew he would likely get a fine and thought that the action was good on balance.



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    You could be right , Taz , but Toto's face maybe changed his mind .
    The pictures afterward had no protest shirt in them .

  6. #105
    Senior Member Tazio's Avatar
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    I think he already made his point!
    May the forza be with you

  7. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tazio View Post
    I think he already made his point!
    But , the point is , that he had already made his point plainly and clearly in the designated part of the program .

    It's a pointy issue .

  8. #107
    Senior Member Tazio's Avatar
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    Ok................. He punctuated his point!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!
    May the forza be with you

  9. #108
    Senior Member truefan72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitrodaze View Post
    What an eloquent piece you have written. I could not write it better for the sake of my anger at the surprising display of indifference to the difficulties facing a vast number of people that we share this planet with. That we share our nations, cities and streets with. It is just a surprising show of inhumane sentiment that demonstrates where the sort of mentalities that bring about human conflicts in antiquity originate from. With the information and higher knowledge available to us in this day and age, we should know better and care better for our fellow human beings, but many don't.

    Hence, l commend you highly for your lovely post.
    Thank you.
    I just calmed myself down and wrote that in hopes to enlighten a few around here.
    some of our forum members, as you rightfully pointed out, seem more than willing to be dismissive or worse yet buy into some weird and disturbing narrative of things, which, frankly i have no more time for anymore. a few have gotten on my ignore list as it doesn't seem worth my time to engage them anymore, but a few others, like Bagwan, who i respect, am more than willing to have a civil discussion. I understand his query as to regs, and just wanted to make the point about protest in general and our reactions. Even if the FIA levy a fine, it is still worth it and definitely worth the attention it has brought. He would gladly pay whatever fine they impose...if they are shortsighted and myopic enough to impose one, instantly become the villains in this story and a looming PR disaster, then I'm sure mercedes will have his back as well as millions of others. Let the FIA reveal what Ferrari did or did not do, before they go after Hamilton for any kind of breach of decorum. Who exactly did he offend? which political party, government, country, or ethnicity did he besmirch? surely not the police, because if they are offended by the call to arrest officers who broke into the wrong house and gunned down a woman in her bed for an alleged "drug raid" then proceed to lie, obfuscate and protect those killers, then those folks should not be surprised that the public is outraged and refuse to let it go.

    But back to Racing hopefully and perhaps the 2 week break will do all of us some good, and allow others to now take the time to find out why the protest happened.
    you can't argue with results. 2019 FGP 2nd Place ;)

  10. #109
    Senior Member truefan72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tazio View Post
    Ok................. He punctuated his point!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!
    Yup!
    and Autosport gets it. Read point #9
    https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/15...can-grand-prix
    Last edited by truefan72; 14th September 2020 at 16:45.
    you can't argue with results. 2019 FGP 2nd Place ;)

  11. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by truefan72 View Post
    Yup!
    and Autosport gets it. Read point #9
    https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/15...can-grand-prix
    All they said was that he remains the most vocal and most visible supporter of the BLM movement .
    That is true , but has no bearing on whether he is allowed to display his message on the podium .

    If you accepted that Hamilton was sanctioned for entering pit lane when it was closed last race because it was a clear rule broken , then why wouldn't you accept him being sanctioned for breaching podium protocol if it's a clear rule ?
    The only thing that could save the situation for all involved is to deem whether it is a political message or not , as neither political nor religious messages are allowed .
    But , it should be made clear that , unless the rules are changed , it shouldn't happen .

    To be honest , Mr fan , I found the act to be somewhat disrespectful , as opposed to inspiring .
    They have dedicated a portion of the program specifically for a display of support .
    They have shown a well-produced promo multiple times during each airing specifically dedicated to the cause .
    There are many signs of support all around the paddock from the FIA and all the teams .

    It is far more publicity and respect for the cause than I expected from the FIA and F1 , and they should be commended .
    And , so should Lewis .
    Without him , most of it wouldn't have occurred .

    When it is simply not allowed , the "goodness" of the message doesn't matter .

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