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  1. #111
    Senior Member truefan72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bagwan View Post
    All they said was that he remains the most vocal and most visible supporter of the BLM movement .
    That is true , but has no bearing on whether he is allowed to display his message on the podium .

    If you accepted that Hamilton was sanctioned for entering pit lane when it was closed last race because it was a clear rule broken , then why wouldn't you accept him being sanctioned for breaching podium protocol if it's a clear rule ?
    The only thing that could save the situation for all involved is to deem whether it is a political message or not , as neither political nor religious messages are allowed .
    But , it should be made clear that , unless the rules are changed , it shouldn't happen .

    To be honest , Mr fan , I found the act to be somewhat disrespectful , as opposed to inspiring .
    They have dedicated a portion of the program specifically for a display of support .
    They have shown a well-produced promo multiple times during each airing specifically dedicated to the cause .
    There are many signs of support all around the paddock from the FIA and all the teams .

    It is far more publicity and respect for the cause than I expected from the FIA and F1 , and they should be commended .
    And , so should Lewis .
    Without him , most of it wouldn't have occurred .
    Bagwan, i still don't think you get it.
    I am not concerned if it is "allowed or not" and am fine with whatever punishment they want to hand out as it is worth it IMO over some regulation rule breach.
    And I believe that is a calculation Hamilton quite willing fully made. Despite it being not even something for anyone to get triggered by.

    Also as to the article here is a snippet of #9

    "Taylor's killing by Kentucky police officers in March has become one of the most high-profile cases of police brutality amid the anti-racism protests around the world in recent months.

    Hamilton wore a shirt bearing her name on the grid, and put it back on for the podium ceremony, only removing it for the champagne celebration. Taylor's face was on the rear of the t-shirt, with Hamilton turning around at the end of the national anthem for it to be picked up in full. Hamilton also ended his interview after his win by saying: "Justice for Breonna Taylor."

    The gammons spouting "keep politics out of sport!" were infuriated by such a show from Hamilton, making their opposition clear on social media. But for those of us in touch with reality and the issues facing the world right now, it was another reminder from Hamilton of how he wants to use his platform and how powerful it can be."


    If you find that disrespectful, then the question is to who? and why does it bother you?
    Finally your last statement is actually the most troubling

    Quote Originally Posted by Bagwan View Post
    When it is simply not allowed , the "goodness" of the message doesn't matter.
    dude, if we went by that way of thinking, nothing would have ever changed in the entirety of history.
    Many things were not allowed until they were changed due to protest and the hard work of civil disobedience.
    Discrimination in all its ugly forms all over the world has been a bedrock of civilization.
    There was a time when Black people were not allowed to be free and held in bondage, so that was ok?
    Or not allowed to play in Major League Baseball
    Or women not allowed to vote
    or girls not allowed to choose to be married off as child
    heck, the Irish in this country weren't allowed to apply for certain jobs in the early 20th century
    Jews were not allowed any rights in 1940's Germany
    and so on and so on...
    What are you saying? that conformity even in the face of injustice is ok because "those are the rules?"
    progress should not wait for society, instead society is always forced to catch up to progress.
    That last statement really is a bit problematic
    oh well

    Ok. lol my final word on the matter

    lets get back to a discussion on the safety car issues, which i think deserve way more of a discussion and opinions than a peaceful protest at the end of the race
    can we agree on that?
    `
    Last edited by truefan72; 14th September 2020 at 17:47.
    you can't argue with results. 2019 FGP 2nd Place ;)

  2. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by truefan72 View Post
    Bagwan, i still don't think you get it.
    I am not concerned if it is "allowed or not" and am fine with whatever punishment they want to hand out as it is worth it IMO over some regulation rule breach.
    And I believe that is a calculation Hamilton quite willing fully made. Despite it being not even something for anyone to get triggered by.

    Also as to the article here is a snippet of #9

    "Taylor's killing by Kentucky police officers in March has become one of the most high-profile cases of police brutality amid the anti-racism protests around the world in recent months.

    Hamilton wore a shirt bearing her name on the grid, and put it back on for the podium ceremony, only removing it for the champagne celebration. Taylor's face was on the rear of the t-shirt, with Hamilton turning around at the end of the national anthem for it to be picked up in full. Hamilton also ended his interview after his win by saying: "Justice for Breonna Taylor."

    The gammons spouting "keep politics out of sport!" were infuriated by such a show from Hamilton, making their opposition clear on social media. But for those of us in touch with reality and the issues facing the world right now, it was another reminder from Hamilton of how he wants to use his platform and how powerful it can be."


    If you find that disrespectful, then the question is to who? and why does it bother you?
    Finally your last statement is actually the most troubling


    dude, if we went by that way of thinking, nothing would have ever changed in the entirety of history.
    Many things were not allowed until they were changed due to protest and the hard work of civil disobedience.
    Discrimination in all its ugly forms all over the world has been a bedrock of civilization.
    There was a time when Black people were not allowed to be free and held in bondage, so that was ok?
    Or not allowed to play in Major League Baseball
    Or women not allowed to vote
    or girls not allowed to choose to be married off as child
    heck, the Irish in this country weren't allowed to apply for certain jobs in the early 20th century
    Jews were not allowed any rights in 1940's Germany
    and so on and so on...
    What are you saying? that conformity even in the face of injustice is ok because "those are the rules?"
    progress should not wait for society, instead society is always forced to catch up to progress.
    That last statement really is a bit problematic
    oh well

    Ok. lol my final word on the matter

    lets get back to a discussion on the safety car issues, which i think deserve way more of a discussion and opinions than a peaceful protest at the end of the race
    can we agree on that?
    `
    At the extreme risk of having to endure another lecture , I will try to make my point .
    If he broke the rules , they need to look at sanction .

    If the sanction was worth it , then so be it .

    The podium in F1 , for me , has always appeared a sacred protected place , which lauds only those who get to stand upon it .
    Had they not gone to great lengths to appease his wishes , and not created a specific forum within the program , I might certainly have been more sympathetic in this case .

    Even if he said he forgot to take it off for the podium ceremony I would be happier about it .




    It's not about the message .

  3. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bagwan View Post
    You are making assumptions about me that are absolutely baseless .
    If you read the post you quoted again , perhaps you'll see that I , clearly , made no comment on his words , but only on the regulations .

    You , Nitrodaze , are coming across as someone who is calling me out as a racist .

    The FIA is investigating the action , so we'll see if they will regard it as a breach of podium protocol or not .
    Sorry Baggie, if i thought you were a racist, l would call you one plainly. So that is not my intention. I simply find that you were noticeably outside your comfort zone enough to not care about the issue. You have not said anything that come across as racist, neighter have l implied you were.
    Last edited by Nitrodaze; 14th September 2020 at 18:53.
    Better a witty fool than a foolish wit.
    William Shakespeare

  4. Likes: truefan72 (14th September 2020)
  5. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bagwan View Post
    All they said was that he remains the most vocal and most visible supporter of the BLM movement .
    That is true , but has no bearing on whether he is allowed to display his message on the podium .

    If you accepted that Hamilton was sanctioned for entering pit lane when it was closed last race because it was a clear rule broken , then why wouldn't you accept him being sanctioned for breaching podium protocol if it's a clear rule ?
    The only thing that could save the situation for all involved is to deem whether it is a political message or not , as neither political nor religious messages are allowed .
    But , it should be made clear that , unless the rules are changed , it shouldn't happen .

    To be honest , Mr fan , I found the act to be somewhat disrespectful , as opposed to inspiring .
    They have dedicated a portion of the program specifically for a display of support .
    They have shown a well-produced promo multiple times during each airing specifically dedicated to the cause .
    There are many signs of support all around the paddock from the FIA and all the teams .

    It is far more publicity and respect for the cause than I expected from the FIA and F1 , and they should be commended .
    And , so should Lewis .
    Without him , most of it wouldn't have occurred .

    When it is simply not allowed , the "goodness" of the message doesn't matter .
    Sorry, l disagree.
    Any platform that has good exposure is fair game for vocalizing any fight against inhumane treatment of any people. It is not disrespectful at all. F1 is an international sport enjoyed by many people on the planet. It is one of the ideal platform for bringing attention to any inhumanity going on in the world. Hence should be seen as a respect rather than a disrespect.

    To stiffle such expressions is to stiffle the voices of the victims of inhumane treatment. These things are disturbing to behold, very unsettling to see and disconcerting to discover the facts that lie behind the jesture.

    The world responded too late going to the aid of the Jews. And millions of souls, including brilliant academics, musicians and more were wasted in gas chambers. We have an opportunity to respond more quickly, so we should, even when we are inconvinienced or taken outside our comfort zones by the peaceful call for action.
    Last edited by Nitrodaze; 14th September 2020 at 18:51.
    Better a witty fool than a foolish wit.
    William Shakespeare

  6. Likes: truefan72 (14th September 2020)
  7. #115
    Senior Member truefan72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitrodaze View Post
    Sorry, l disagree.
    Any platform that has good exposure is fair game for vocalizing any fight against inhumane treatment of any people. It is not disrespectful at all. F1 is an international sport enjoyed by many people on the planet. It is one of the ideal platform for bringing attention to any inhumanity going on in the world. Hence should be seen as a respect rather than a disrespect.

    To stiffle such expressions is to stiffle the voices of the victims of inhumane treatment. These things are disturbing to behold, very unsettling to see and disconcerting to discover the facts that lie behind the jesture.

    The world responded too late going to the aid of the Jews. And millions of souls, including brilliant academics, musicians and more were wasted in gas chambers. We have an opportunity to respond more quickly, so we should, even when we are inconvinienced or taken outside our comfort zones by the peaceful call for action.
    Well said!
    you can't argue with results. 2019 FGP 2nd Place ;)

  8. #116
    Senior Member truefan72's Avatar
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    now about the restart procedures.
    I admit that I incorrectly assigned blame to Bottas for the calamity yesterday, although I later deferred to Anthony Davidson's spot on analysis.
    https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/15...-restart-crash
    In reading the autopsort article, it seems very clear that the drivers at the back were totally at fault and were even briefed in the drivers meeting about the right process. Add to that the F3 guys had no problem doing it, it seems quite clear it comes down to the drivers at the back and in general who complained about gaps, when the lights went out etc.
    In reading Masi's interview on the matter this is very clear and the drivers only have themselves to blame.
    No need to change any procedures etc. just stubborn drivers mentality towards the restart.

    more good analysis: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEKH_LPqjJ8
    Last edited by truefan72; 14th September 2020 at 20:11.
    you can't argue with results. 2019 FGP 2nd Place ;)

  9. Likes: Tazio (15th September 2020)
  10. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitrodaze View Post
    I am not sure how to reply to your post. It is surprising to say the least. This is the sort of thing that Germans were saying to themselves while millions of Jews where being systematically gassed to death enmass. There were statements like "Rubbish, nothing of the sort is going on".

    You demonstrate the very problem that people of colour are fighting against; politically correct racism. You would not called them Niggers to their face, you would just marginalize their issues and ignore their suffering. George Floyd did not have a knife in his hand as the Police officer kneeled on his windpipe, did he? WTF are talking about?
    George Floyds death, whilst tragic, was not intentional. If you resist arrest the Police must use force. The knee on the neck was as per their training, they did everything by the book and in death he is just being used as a pawn. I’d suggest you watch the full footage and you’ll see what I mean.

    And as for Hamilton, I suspect he’ll get away with a warning this time, but he should not be allowed break the rules a second time without severe consequences.

  11. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitrodaze View Post
    Sorry, l disagree.
    Any platform that has good exposure is fair game for vocalizing any fight against inhumane treatment of any people. It is not disrespectful at all. F1 is an international sport enjoyed by many people on the planet. It is one of the ideal platform for bringing attention to any inhumanity going on in the world. Hence should be seen as a respect rather than a disrespect.

    To stiffle such expressions is to stiffle the voices of the victims of inhumane treatment. These things are disturbing to behold, very unsettling to see and disconcerting to discover the facts that lie behind the jesture.

    The world responded too late going to the aid of the Jews. And millions of souls, including brilliant academics, musicians and more were wasted in gas chambers. We have an opportunity to respond more quickly, so we should, even when we are inconvinienced or taken outside our comfort zones by the peaceful call for action.
    I am frankly sick to death of being lectured about this .

    Perhaps you disagree with the rule that says he can't do what he did .
    It would make more sense for you to say so .

    It would make more sense than assuming I need a lecture on racism when you just noted in a previous post that you don't consider me a racist .

  12. #119
    Senior Member N. Jones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Black Knight View Post
    George Floyds death, whilst tragic, was not intentional. If you resist arrest the Police must use force. The knee on the neck was as per their training, they did everything by the book and in death he is just being used as a pawn. I’d suggest you watch the full footage and you’ll see what I mean.
    Except lift off when the man was unable to breathe.
    " Lady - I'm in an awful dilemma.
    Moe - Yeah, I never cared much for these foreign cars either."

  13. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by N. Jones View Post
    Except lift off when the man was unable to breathe.
    Except he was claiming he couldn’t breathe for 6 minutes before he was ever on the ground.

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