Page 5 of 7 FirstFirst ... 34567 LastLast
Results 41 to 50 of 63
  1. #41
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    987
    Like
    0
    Liked 568 Times in 302 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by truefan72 View Post
    I would respectfully disagree. All 3 of those guys are worthy of top team seats. The problem is the RBR insane management style along with a myopic focus on verstappen only which means anyone coming in has to adapt to a car that is only setup for max and a team that treat the 2nd seat with disdain as soon as they think they have their “golden boy” add to that the insane and ridiculous pressure marko and Horner put on that driver and you have a toxic environment for anyone not named max (or vettel. And that’s why Mercedes keep winning the WCC. They provide 2 equal cars and an effort to allow each driver to flourish. They may get it wrong on strategy here and there but there is no questioning their driver philosophy in terms of giving each the space, tools and motivation they need to succeed
    And i disagree with that. Although it is clear that Verstappen is the number one driver, albon has the same just as fast car.

    No new or young driver gets a car that is build or setup for them. They all come into a team that already has a more experienced driver who has already helped build the car.

    But the true greats do not need that. Hamilton started next to alonso and nearly won the championship. Verstappen started next to ricciardo and won his first race in a redbull. Vettel started next to webber and beat him in his first season with redbull.

    It's not about the team. It's not about the bosses opinion. As soon as a driver sits in the car it's just about him and driving fast.


    Kvyat was just not good enough. Gasly was just not good enough. Albon is just not good enough. The only reason albon is still in that redbull is because they have no-one better. As soon as they find someone better he will be fired before the season is over. If he was just as fast he would also be a golden boy, but he is not.

  2. #42
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Posts
    7,830
    Like
    78
    Liked 459 Times in 366 Posts
    " And that’s why Mercedes keep winning the WCC. They provide 2 equal cars and an effort to allow each driver to flourish. They may get it wrong on strategy here and there but there is no questioning their driver philosophy in terms of giving each the space, tools and motivation they need to succeed"

    Not so sure about that .
    Bottas wasn't so sure about that after the race , either .

  3. #43
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Greenwich, London UK
    Posts
    2,113
    Like
    1
    Liked 504 Times in 402 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Bagwan View Post
    " And that’s why Mercedes keep winning the WCC. They provide 2 equal cars and an effort to allow each driver to flourish. They may get it wrong on strategy here and there but there is no questioning their driver philosophy in terms of giving each the space, tools and motivation they need to succeed"

    Not so sure about that .
    Bottas wasn't so sure about that after the race , either .
    I think Bottas gets a fair treatment at Mercedes. As far as last sunday goes, Bottas did not think on his feet to ensure he took charge of the decisions to ensure he won the race. He settled into the scheme of things and hoped the win would come to him.

    I keep saying that the best drivers make their own luck. That is how Verstapenn won the race with the help of the tyres obviously. If Verstapenn just settled with what the RBR pits was telling him, chances are that Hamilton may have caught up with him with fresher tyres and stole the win from him.

    Hamilton kept questioning the pitwall's decision and constantly negotiated for a better strategy. He eventually got the strategy that nearly won the race. You have to notice also that Mercedes did not ask Bottas to let Hamilton through. He was told he was allowed to fight but must be clean, even though it was apparent that asking Bottas to not fight Hamilton may have probably given Hamilton more time to catch Verstapenn.

    I could see he was not happy with the outcome, but he cannot blame anyone for that. He did not take the initiative so he should blame himself l think.
    Last edited by Nitrodaze; 10th August 2020 at 21:40.
    Better a witty fool than a foolish wit.
    William Shakespeare

  4. Likes: truefan72 (11th August 2020)
  5. #44
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Greenwich, London UK
    Posts
    2,113
    Like
    1
    Liked 504 Times in 402 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by denkimi View Post
    And i disagree with that. Although it is clear that Verstappen is the number one driver, albon has the same just as fast car.

    No new or young driver gets a car that is build or setup for them. They all come into a team that already has a more experienced driver who has already helped build the car.

    But the true greats do not need that. Hamilton started next to alonso and nearly won the championship. Verstappen started next to ricciardo and won his first race in a redbull. Vettel started next to webber and beat him in his first season with redbull.

    It's not about the team. It's not about the bosses opinion. As soon as a driver sits in the car it's just about him and driving fast.


    Kvyat was just not good enough. Gasly was just not good enough. Albon is just not good enough. The only reason albon is still in that redbull is because they have no-one better. As soon as they find someone better he will be fired before the season is over. If he was just as fast he would also be a golden boy, but he is not.
    Kyvat was just as fast as Ricciado. He certainly gave Ricciado a run for his money until he hit some bad patches where he started to crash alot. Gasly is a F2 champion. That may not mean much to you, but l assure you he is as fast as Verstapenn given the right car. Albon has shown he is one of the best overtaker among that class of rookies that came into F1 together. His first half season clearly indicate that RBR has a special talent in him. He would match Verstapenn given the support and service close to what Verstapenn is enjoying.

    The truth is RBR is spoilt for choice. They have four great drivers in two teams and the envy of the whole paddock.
    Better a witty fool than a foolish wit.
    William Shakespeare

  6. #45
    Senior Member N. Jones's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Woodridge, Illinois, USA
    Posts
    4,075
    Like
    324
    Liked 529 Times in 346 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by truefan72 View Post
    I would respectfully disagree. All 3 of those guys are worthy of top team seats. The problem is the RBR insane management style along with a myopic focus on verstappen only which means anyone coming in has to adapt to a car that is only setup for max and a team that treat the 2nd seat with disdain as soon as they think they have their “golden boy” add to that the insane and ridiculous pressure marko and Horner put on that driver and you have a toxic environment for anyone not named max (or vettel. And that’s why Mercedes keep winning the WCC. They provide 2 equal cars and an effort to allow each driver to flourish. They may get it wrong on strategy here and there but there is no questioning their driver philosophy in terms of giving each the space, tools and motivation they need to succeed
    Have to disagree on one thing - not Horner and Marko, Marko only. That guy is an ******* and no business being in F1.
    " Lady - I'm in an awful dilemma.
    Moe - Yeah, I never cared much for these foreign cars either."

  7. Likes: truefan72 (11th August 2020)
  8. #46
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    1,479
    Like
    192
    Liked 116 Times in 90 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Nitrodaze View Post
    Gasly is a F2 champion. That may not mean much to you, but l assure you he is as fast as Verstapenn given the right car.
    It doesn't really mean a lot. Jolyon Palmer was a GP2 champion, as were Maldonado and Grosjean, not to mention the likes of Valsecchi, Leimer and Pantano. Are they as fast as Verstapppen, too?
    Gasly has so far shown occassional flashes of Speed (more so in the Alpha Tauri than the Red Bull), but nothing that would imply he is anywhere near Verstappen.
    Oct. 31, 1999 - one of the blackest days in motorsports.

  9. #47
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Greenwich, London UK
    Posts
    2,113
    Like
    1
    Liked 504 Times in 402 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by gm99 View Post
    It doesn't really mean a lot. Jolyon Palmer was a GP2 champion, as were Maldonado and Grosjean, not to mention the likes of Valsecchi, Leimer and Pantano. Are they as fast as Verstapppen, too?
    Gasly has so far shown occassional flashes of Speed (more so in the Alpha Tauri than the Red Bull), but nothing that would imply he is anywhere near Verstappen.
    I am surprised you assumed these F2 and GP2 champions are not as fast as Verstapenn. You also neglect to mention Leclerc and Russell who are also F2 champions. Are you suggesting that these guys [Leclerc and Russel] are not as fast as Verstapenn also?

    I think any of those champions in Verstapenns position would perform comparably. F1 is a very tough environment to nuture ones career. We have seen great speed from Grosjean while partnering Kimi at Lotus. His career has gone down a route where we are never going to see his true talent.

    The key here for rookies entering the premier formula is getting a competitve drive in a top team that would invest their effort into nuturing their talent. Most of the guys that you mentioned with exception to Palmer, did not get that chance; Grosjean, Maldonando etc. Those that got the chance of the seat, did so as second fiddle to a sitting number one driver. A situation that would not allow them to quite flourish and show their true talent. This was the case for Gasly.

    Some simply did not get the chance at all, as they did not get on the driver programmes of F1 teams; Leimar, Pantano, Nyck De Vries etc.

    I think l should also mention that Hamilton is a GP2 Champion. So all of these guys are in very good company.
    Last edited by Nitrodaze; 11th August 2020 at 12:36.
    Better a witty fool than a foolish wit.
    William Shakespeare

  10. #48
    Senior Member truefan72's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Philadelphia
    Posts
    5,565
    Like
    973
    Liked 296 Times in 223 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Nitrodaze View Post
    I am surprised you assumed these F2 and GP2 champions are not as fast as Verstapenn. You also neglect to mention Leclerc and Russell who are also F2 champions. Are you suggesting that these guys [Leclerc and Russel] are not as fast as Verstapenn also?
    and Hamilton and Rosberg
    you can't argue with results. 2019 FGP 2nd Place ;)

  11. #49
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    2,530
    Like
    107
    Liked 141 Times in 95 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Nitrodaze View Post
    Gasly is a F2 champion. That may not mean much to you, but l assure you he is as fast as Verstapenn given the right car. Albon has shown he is one of the best overtaker among that class of rookies that came into F1 together. His first half season clearly indicate that RBR has a special talent in him. He would match Verstapenn given the support and service close to what Verstapenn is enjoying.

    If Gasly is as fast as Verstappen... exactly why wasn't he as fast as Verstappen?
    Is the car built purely for Verstappen style and the others cant drive it?... Or other things?


    Sure, we saw a similar pattern with Vettels continuous dominance over Webber.. but that same dominance wasnt there with Ricciardo vs Verstappen . It was a heck of a lot closer compared to Verstappen vs Gasly.. & now also Albon.

  12. Likes: gm99 (12th August 2020)
  13. #50
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Greenwich, London UK
    Posts
    2,113
    Like
    1
    Liked 504 Times in 402 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Zico View Post
    If Gasly is as fast as Verstappen... exactly why wasn't he as fast as Verstappen?
    Is the car built purely for Verstappen style and the others cant drive it?... Or other things?


    Sure, we saw a similar pattern with Vettels continuous dominance over Webber.. but that same dominance wasnt there with Ricciardo vs Verstappen . It was a heck of a lot closer compared to Verstappen vs Gasly.. & now also Albon.
    Ricciado vs Verstapenn is a different case. Verstapenn was promoted to replace Kyvat, thus joining the more experienced Ricciado. There was an initial gap while Verstapenn got to grips with the RBR car. Then there was a noticeable equalization of performance between Ricciado and Verstapenn which began to tilt the team support towards Verstapenn. From that moment on, Ricciado got very poor service and his performance dropped due to all manner of car setup related issues.

    Ricciado left Redbull because it was clear to him that he may not get the same level of support or service that Verstapenn was getting. Hence, he was always going to struggle to put out his best performances with the car he was getting. He spent many races fighting from the depth of the middlefield and ending up in top 5 positions at the end of the race. Much like we are seeing with Albon. We can also see that Gasly in the Alpha Tauri is a different driver from the one that drove the Redbull.

    The other side of the garage at redbull to Verstapenn, gets the crap mechanics. They cannot setup the car to the level of the Verstapenn side of the grid. They were asleep at Monaco and caused Ricciado to lose the race to Hamilton a few years back. So you cannot really judge the performance of any driver using that side of the garage fairly knowing these facts.

    You have to look beyond the obvious buddy.
    Last edited by Nitrodaze; 11th August 2020 at 20:26.
    Better a witty fool than a foolish wit.
    William Shakespeare

  14. Likes: truefan72 (12th August 2020)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •