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  1. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by journeyman racer View Post
    Bagwan is right. Pirelli are asked to make junk tyres. How the teams use them is up to them. They're meant to be made to suit a particular car. The teams make adjustment in their car to make best use of the tyres. That's how it's supposed to be.
    Hello Journeyman, as usual, l don't agree with you on this one. Nobody asked Pirelli to make junk tryes, they are just junk. The general expectation was for the tyres to be consistently good for a prescribed number of laps before degradation and consequential failure. The general complaints are that they are not even reaching their specified maximum limits before they fail.

    I think what it means now is that the tyres are good for 90% of the prescribed maximum number of laps specified by Pirelli. If Pirelli say 40laps is the maximum for a particular tyre, that would translate to realistically 36 laps max before the tyres becomes unpredictable.

    When you compare the Pirelli tyres to the Bridgestone tyres of old, the Pirelli tyres are comparatively quite below optimum.
    Better a witty fool than a foolish wit.
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  2. #72
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    It's also fair to point out that these tyres were developed for older, slower cars and that cornering speeds have increased significantly over the last couple of years. And it was the teams that rejected a move to a newer, stiffer tyre as it felt quitr differently, so this is kind of on their plate as well.

    On top of that, there was the kerb change at Becketts, which seems to have been causing the cuts on the tyre surfaces and heavily increased tyre loads.

    Ultimately the responsibility is on Pirelli to produce a better product, there's no question on that. But we need to note that in this situation there are a lot of mitigating factors.

  3. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitrodaze View Post
    Hello Journeyman, as usual, l don't agree with you on this one. Nobody asked Pirelli to make junk tryes, they are just junk. The general expectation was for the tyres to be consistently good for a prescribed number of laps before degradation and consequential failure. The general complaints are that they are not even reaching their specified maximum limits before they fail.

    I think what it means now is that the tyres are good for 90% of the prescribed maximum number of laps specified by Pirelli. If Pirelli say 40laps is the maximum for a particular tyre, that would translate to realistically 36 laps max before the tyres becomes unpredictable.

    When you compare the Pirelli tyres to the Bridgestone tyres of old, the Pirelli tyres are comparatively quite below optimum.
    So , if they had predicted a longevity of 36 laps , would you be happy ?

    So , on the new tarmac at the track making it harder to predict , and with the recently discovered "cutting curbing" to add to the points I cited in my earlier post , could it be considered hard to predict ?

    I would imagine the teams looking at the tires and making judgments , much like yourself , about the real characteristics of the tires .

    And , I'm sure Pirelli learned more as well .

    By the way , they weren't asked for "junk" tires , as you guys put it .
    They were given specific mandates to produce exactly what we have .

  4. Likes: truefan72 (6th August 2020)
  5. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by journeyman racer View Post
    For the races he doens't win, I thought that was Bottas' best one. Normally when he's behind Hamilton from the beginning, he slowly fades away. But there was a sustained stint behind Hamilton. It was pretty good. Hopefully he can do it more often.
    I don't agree.

    This was just another controlled race for mercedes. They drive fast a the start or restart for 5 to 7 laps until they have a 10 second lead, and then they just adjust their pace to match that of the number 3 of the race.
    Hamilton could go a lot faster, bottas could go a lot faster. They both just have orders not to. Except from qualifying, we can't tell anything about the true speed of the mercedes cars.

  6. Likes: gm99 (6th August 2020)
  7. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bagwan View Post
    So , if they had predicted a longevity of 36 laps , would you be happy ?

    So , on the new tarmac at the track making it harder to predict , and with the recently discovered "cutting curbing" to add to the points I cited in my earlier post , could it be considered hard to predict ?

    I would imagine the teams looking at the tires and making judgments , much like yourself , about the real characteristics of the tires .

    And , I'm sure Pirelli learned more as well .

    By the way , they weren't asked for "junk" tires , as you guys put it .
    They were given specific mandates to produce exactly what we have .
    Assuming the tyres does not pop before 36 laps, yes l and everyone else would be happy. Their 36 laps probably mean 32 laps.

    There were talks about the kerbs at Beckett but there was no evidence that it was responsible for the tyre failures. You seem to find everyone else to blame for this, the teams, the track, maybe we should blame sky as well. It is what it is!

    They haven't been asked to produce a tyre that does not meet their own clear stipulation to the teams regarding the maximum number of laps that a tyre should be run. If Pilrelli say 40 laps max for the hardest C1 tyre, that is what the teams reasonably expect the maximum life of the tyres to be. Not 37 laps. This is F1 the most technologically advanced racing platform in the world. If Pirelli say 40, then that is everyone's expectation.


    That said, Silverston need more marshalls to do a proper clean up in the event of a crash. We cannot rule out cuts to the tyres being contributory to the tyre failure. Silverstone has always been very hard on tyres, Pirelli know that full well. Thats why they do tyre test at various tracks.
    Last edited by Nitrodaze; 7th August 2020 at 11:28.
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  8. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by denkimi View Post
    I don't agree.

    This was just another controlled race for mercedes. They drive fast a the start or restart for 5 to 7 laps until they have a 10 second lead, and then they just adjust their pace to match that of the number 3 of the race.
    Hamilton could go a lot faster, bottas could go a lot faster. They both just have orders not to. Except from qualifying, we can't tell anything about the true speed of the mercedes cars.
    Those Petronas Mercedes cars are super fast! They are making Redbull and Ferrari look very ordinary. Both have been outdone on the chassis and engine front. 30 minutes lead puts Mercedes in a different formula, lets call it Formula Zero!
    Last edited by Nitrodaze; 6th August 2020 at 19:21.
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  9. #77
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    Regarding Kyvat's accident, this is what Pirelli had to say:

    Statement on Kvyat incident, British GP: a mechanical issue led to the inside of the wheel rim overheating, burning the bead of the tyre. So the bead was no longer able to seal the tyre onto the rim. This caused the deflation, with the tyre itself playing no part in the cause.

  10. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitrodaze View Post
    Assuming the tyres does not pop before 36 laps, yes l and evetyone else would be happy. Their 36 laps probably mean 32 laps.

    There were talks about the kerbs at Beckett but there was no evidence that it was responsible for the tyre failures. You seem to find everyone else to blame for this, the teams, the track, maybe we should blame sky as well. It is what it is!

    They haven't been asked to produce a tyre that does not meet their own clear stipulation to the teams regarding the maximum number of laps that a tyre should be run. If Pilrelli say 40 laps max for the hardest C1 tyre, that is what the teams reasonably expect the maximum life of the tyres to be. Not 37 laps. This is F1 the most technologically advanced racing platform in the world. If Pirelli say 40, then that is everyone's expectation.


    That said, Silverston need more marshalls to do a proper clean up in the event of a crash. We cannot rule out cuts to the tyres being contributory to the tyre failure. Silverstone has always been very hard on tyres, Pirelli know that full well. Thats why they do tyre test at various tracks.
    Did any team reach 40 laps on those tires ?

  11. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitrodaze View Post
    Hello Journeyman, as usual, l don't agree with you on this one. Nobody asked Pirelli to make junk tryes, they are just junk. The general expectation was for the tyres to be consistently good for a prescribed number of laps before degradation and consequential failure. The general complaints are that they are not even reaching their specified maximum limits before they fail.

    I think what it means now is that the tyres are good for 90% of the prescribed maximum number of laps specified by Pirelli. If Pirelli say 40laps is the maximum for a particular tyre, that would translate to realistically 36 laps max before the tyres becomes unpredictable.

    When you compare the Pirelli tyres to the Bridgestone tyres of old, the Pirelli tyres are comparatively quite below optimum.
    Hello. Good day to you, sir.

    Personally, having a definite expectation of tyre life is too much to ask for by the teams. I've watched a Frank Dernie interview on YT. He was saying that the two hardest parts to get right in an F1 car are aero and tyres. This is obviously the case atm.

    I think you'll find there's been a directive to have substandard tyres in F1 rules to manufacture the spectacle of the 2010 Canadian GP. A race where people seemed to enjoy the race with a tyres less suitable for the conditions causing a fluctuation of performance. It's why there's the rule of having to use two compounds.

    They could make a tyre to perform sufficiently for a whole race. But the FIA/F1/teams/fans aren't interested in that.

    Quote Originally Posted by denkimi View Post
    I don't agree.

    This was just another controlled race for mercedes. They drive fast a the start or restart for 5 to 7 laps until they have a 10 second lead, and then they just adjust their pace to match that of the number 3 of the race.
    Hamilton could go a lot faster, bottas could go a lot faster. They both just have orders not to. Except from qualifying, we can't tell anything about the true speed of the mercedes cars.
    How do you interpret the competitive situation between Hamilton and Bottas if the bolded is the case?

  12. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bagwan View Post
    Did any team reach 40 laps on those tires ?
    That's the point, isn't it?
    Better a witty fool than a foolish wit.
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