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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by gm99 View Post
    Wow, what an exciting finish to a rather boring race. Red Bull must be kicking themselves for bringing Verstappen in after Bottas' tyre failure. And LeClerc once again, like in Austria 1, probably has no clue how in the world he ended up on that podium (although he was massively faster than Vettel, whose race pace was downright embarrassing).
    Racing Point are the biggest losers: From the pace they showed on Friday, you would have thought they'd be Mercedes' biggest challengers this week-end, yet in the end they ended up with only two points.
    Racing Point seemed to have focused on qualifying pace rather than race pace. Just one of the indications of how not having Perez in the car has affected the Racing Point weekend.

    I felt Verstapenn was cheated out of the win by an unneccesary pitstop. But then again he may have also had puncture if he did not stop.
    Better a witty fool than a foolish wit.
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  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by denkimi View Post
    well yes and no.
    he had a 40 second lead, if they had told him to take it real easy he would have easily won with a 30 second lead without destroying the tyre.
    but indeed, they could have brought him in after max pitted, he would have easily won the race with a 15 second lead.

    the only thing they should not have done is to just let him drive at the same pace, which is exactly what they have done.
    Hamilton seemed to have indicated that Bottas pushed him hard, which was the reason that they both destroyed their tyres. Mercedes probably did not manage the race well enough.

    Bottas is out of contention now for the title. He would need some DNF or a bad race weekend for Hamilton, to get back into contention. Hamilton is now 30 points ahead. Bottas is only 6 points ahead of Verstapenn.

    This weekend was a disaster for Bottas.
    Last edited by Nitrodaze; 3rd August 2020 at 19:54.
    Better a witty fool than a foolish wit.
    William Shakespeare

  3. Likes: pantealex (3rd August 2020),truefan72 (3rd August 2020)
  4. #43
    Senior Member truefan72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitrodaze View Post
    We can't blame Mercedes if their rivals have drop backwards in the development race. Redbull has noticeably slipped backwards in the last ywo races. Ferrari simply are not in it at all. Even the Pink Mercedes is faster than them at the moment.
    And the Mclaren and Renault are probably pretty solid in there too.
    As Mercedes said, it was actually the Ferrari shenanigans (in terms of their apparent engine improvement) that forced them to work twice as hard to catch up to the Ferrari that has brought about their improved engine performance in 2020. I'd say the car's pace is right about where the ferrari was in the latter half of 2019. Now the mercedes still struggles following cars and in higher ambient temps, which should make some of the upcoming races very interesting. As to RedBull, I think that they are close but seem stuck with a particular overall design philosophy which is holding them back slightly IMO. They need a fundamental shift in their approach because it isn't the honda engine holding them back at this point.
    you can't argue with results.

  5. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitrodaze View Post
    It was not a dangerous situation. Cars with punctures have typically been driven with just the carcass back to the pits to be replaced in the past without punishment, l don't see why there should be an issue with this instance.
    First of all , not to be argumentative , but it was , indeed dangerous .
    And , my issue with it was that he didn't pit , but instead , risked the tire flying to bits and smashing the front wing into a zillion pieces in the final turn on the final lap , with Max 5 or so seconds behind .
    Had he gone back to the pits as you suggested is typical and not punishable , I would have no problem with it .

    On any other lap in the race , Lewis would never have considered staying out with a blown tire .
    Add to it that it's a right turn onto the final straight , which puts the most strain on that front left blown tire .
    And then add that Max was on a fastest lap coming up quickly from behind , pushing Lewis .

    On Lewis's side is that it was a brave gamble , and it worked out .

    But , it would never have been allowed or even attempted on any other lap (that is , passing the pit entrance with an already blown tire)for safety reasons .


    Let me make it clear here , that I'm glad he didn't pit , as it harkened back to the days of Gilles running around on three wheels , refusing to concede defeat . I loved it then and I love it now .

    But , i'm struggling a little with where the "safe" line is for the stewards .

  6. #45
    Senior Member Jag_Warrior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gm99 View Post
    Wow, what an exciting finish to a rather boring race. Red Bull must be kicking themselves for bringing Verstappen in after Bottas' tyre failure. And LeClerc once again, like in Austria 1, probably has no clue how in the world he ended up on that podium (although he was massively faster than Vettel, whose race pace was downright embarrassing).
    Racing Point are the biggest losers: From the pace they showed on Friday, you would have thought they'd be Mercedes' biggest challengers this week-end, yet in the end they ended up with only two points.
    TBH, I've recently tried to like Lance... at least give him a fair shake. I felt like I disliked him for the wrong reasons. After hammering him for being just a rich kid, with marginal talent, who got a seat only because daddy bought a team for him, seemed like he finally began showing that he actually does have some talent. But this weekend kind of showed that he can't really get it done, unless he has Perez's setup notes to copy. This weekend made me think back to how badly Danica and Marco fell off in performance when Tony Kanaan was no longer there to set their cars up for them.

    I, of course, blame Nico's issues on the Mercedes P/U. But Lance doffed his own weekend. I really was hoping that Nico coul dredeem himself. I've been pulling for him since he won the GP2 title.

    As for the race overall, I thought that it was quite exciting. Plenty of midfield battles and some great racing (well, everyone except for Goober Grosjean - why is he still in F1???!!!). And my heart stopped at least twice on the last couple of laps. Once because of Clueless Crofty's mistake and again when Lewis' tire really did let go.

    What
    A
    Race!!!
    "Every generation's memory is exactly as long as its own experience." --John Kenneth Galbraith

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  8. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bagwan View Post
    First of all , not to be argumentative , but it was , indeed dangerous .
    And , my issue with it was that he didn't pit , but instead , risked the tire flying to bits and smashing the front wing into a zillion pieces in the final turn on the final lap , with Max 5 or so seconds behind .
    Had he gone back to the pits as you suggested is typical and not punishable , I would have no problem with it .

    On any other lap in the race , Lewis would never have considered staying out with a blown tire .
    Add to it that it's a right turn onto the final straight , which puts the most strain on that front left blown tire .
    And then add that Max was on a fastest lap coming up quickly from behind , pushing Lewis .

    On Lewis's side is that it was a brave gamble , and it worked out .

    But , it would never have been allowed or even attempted on any other lap (that is , passing the pit entrance with an already blown tire)for safety reasons .


    Let me make it clear here , that I'm glad he didn't pit , as it harkened back to the days of Gilles running around on three wheels , refusing to concede defeat . I loved it then and I love it now .

    But , i'm struggling a little with where the "safe" line is for the stewards .
    The pits and the finish line are practically next to each other. By reaching the pits entrance, the sensible thing was to cross the finish line rather than go into the pits which would have handed the race to Verstapenn.

    Also, the tyre did not damage any chassis parts at the point when he arrived at the pit entrance. So it made good sense to finish the race across the finish line.

    It was an extraordinary race which we shall be talking about for years to come. And Pirelli make crap racing tyres really WTF, with the safety car for the Kyvat incident which should have increased the tyre life, the tyre disintegrates before the estimated 40 laps tyre lifeline.

    It is going to be a three stop strategy next weekend with the even softer Pirelli tyres.
    Last edited by Nitrodaze; 3rd August 2020 at 20:04.
    Better a witty fool than a foolish wit.
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  9. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by truefan72 View Post
    And the Mclaren and Renault are probably pretty solid in there too.
    As Mercedes said, it was actually the Ferrari shenanigans (in terms of their apparent engine improvement) that forced them to work twice as hard to catch up to the Ferrari that has brought about their improved engine performance in 2020. I'd say the car's pace is right about where the ferrari was in the latter half of 2019. Now the mercedes still struggles following cars and in higher ambient temps, which should make some of the upcoming races very interesting. As to RedBull, I think that they are close but seem stuck with a particular overall design philosophy which is holding them back slightly IMO. They need a fundamental shift in their approach because it isn't the honda engine holding them back at this point.
    Absolutely, Redbull changed something on the chassis and since then it has dropped its performance. It clearly is not an engine issue. And it would be the beginning of a seperation if Redbull makes the mistake of blaming Honda for this.
    Last edited by Nitrodaze; 3rd August 2020 at 19:56.
    Better a witty fool than a foolish wit.
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  10. #48
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    At this moment I need to retract my previous criticism of Pirelli as the evidence is mounting that the tire failures were caused by debris:

    - Horner has come out saying that Verstappen's hard front left tire had "50 little cuts" in it: https://www.motorsportweek.com/2020/...0-little-cuts/

    - Albert Fabrega, journalist, claims to have found a piece of metal in the racing line after the race: https://mobile.twitter.com/AlbertFab...60595171115010

    Hopefully this will be it and we'll be able to have our next race without tire dramas now.

  11. #49
    Senior Member truefan72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jag_Warrior View Post
    TBH, I've recently tried to like Lance... at least give him a fair shake. I felt like I disliked him for the wrong reasons. After hammering him for being just a rich kid, with marginal talent, who got a seat only because daddy bought a team for him, seemed like he finally began showing that he actually does have some talent. But this weekend kind of showed that he can't really get it done, unless he has Perez's setup notes to copy. This weekend made me think back to how badly Danica and Marco fell off in performance when Tony Kanaan was no longer there to set their cars up for them.
    I'm in the same boat with you on Stroll.
    On pure talent and merit, he probably should be toiling away somewhere in the top 15 in GP2 but somehow has managed to get an F1 ride now for a 4th year.
    I really struggle to respect his racing, but recently felt that his 3+ years of experience probably has given him some kind of an improvement in his race craft worthy of my tepid acknowledgment.
    Then came this weekend and it was a bit embarrassing. He really drove a stinker of a race.
    Then to make matters worse, How they blew it on the other car not being able to start is beyond comprehension. It is either gross incompetence or the fluke of the century.
    Hulkenberg's pace was excusable due to the circumstances of his drive, not to mention a severely compromised cockpit setup for him. And despite that he quickly came to grips with the car I'm glad he got that shot and i was beyond disappointed that the he didn't even make it to the starting grid. (almost like team stroll was afraid of being embarrassed by Hulkenberg)

    I honestly feel like if they had temporarily bumped Russell up into that seat for the next 2 races, he would have given them a podium. If you had put DeVries in that seat, i would have expected probably a top 5 finish same with wherlein. This racing point car should legitimately be fighting with the Red Bulls and Ferrari's. It reminds me of toyota in 2009. A superb car let down by average drivers, dubious race strategies, and mechanical blunders. This car should be 2nd or 3rd in the WCC standings and include a driver in the top 5. I wonder how much (poor) influence stroll and his dad have on strategy and the overall decisions this team is able to take. As of right now, it's not working and I fear they are throwing away an amazing opportunity to be at the very top end of the grid.

    I'm starting to revert back to my previous opinion of stroll, but would love to be proved wrong.
    Last edited by truefan72; 4th August 2020 at 00:47.
    you can't argue with results.

  12. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by N4D13 View Post
    At this moment I need to retract my previous criticism of Pirelli as the evidence is mounting that the tire failures were caused by debris:

    - Horner has come out saying that Verstappen's hard front left tire had "50 little cuts" in it: https://www.motorsportweek.com/2020/...0-little-cuts/

    - Albert Fabrega, journalist, claims to have found a piece of metal in the racing line after the race: https://mobile.twitter.com/AlbertFab...60595171115010

    Hopefully this will be it and we'll be able to have our next race without tire dramas now.
    Pirelli tyres are not so crap after all. This leads us to wonder if Silverstone needs more marshalls as it took a long time for them to remove Kyvat's Alpha Tauri. The track cleaning effort was very light as well it appeared.
    Better a witty fool than a foolish wit.
    William Shakespeare

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