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  1. #61
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    https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/15...-tyre-failures

    So essentially Pirelli are saying that this happened because of the super long stints + extreme demands on the front left tires + higher cornering speeds this year. No mention of debris after all.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by N4D13 View Post
    https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/15...-tyre-failures

    So essentially Pirelli are saying that this happened because of the super long stints + extreme demands on the front left tires + higher cornering speeds this year. No mention of debris after all.
    Yep , use them too long and they go pop .
    Not Pirelli's fault .
    Run what you brung .

  3. Likes: truefan72 (6th August 2020)
  4. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by N4D13 View Post
    https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/15...-tyre-failures

    So essentially Pirelli are saying that this happened because of the super long stints + extreme demands on the front left tires + higher cornering speeds this year. No mention of debris after all.
    I kind of find that debris cutting the tyres and causing them to fail to be an acceptable excuse. As those were the hardest [white walled C1] tyres that burst on the Mercedes, they should have survived the 40 laps long stints, especially since there were safety car moments in the long stints; where they were driving slow. Pirrelli already knew of the extreme demands that the 2020 cars were going to load on the tyres and the potential corrnering speeds at Silverstone, since the beginning of last year.

    I am understanding their excuses to mean they did not design the tyres to match the operational conditions correctly. Crap tyres basically!

    There seem to be a confrontation of intentions here. Pirelli seem to want the teams to operate their cars within a confined tyre operatiional windows. The teams clearly want to operate their cars to the maximum limits stated by Pirelli for their tyres. It seems the tyres demand of the Silverstone track has exposed that the tyres were short of their prescribed maximum limits. Mercedes obviously planned the tyre use to the very limit of the tyre maximum life of 40 laps. Even so, it does not explain Kyvat's rear tyre failure.
    Last edited by Nitrodaze; 5th August 2020 at 20:48.
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  5. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bagwan View Post
    I have a hard time criticizing Pirelli at all , as they are still creating tires to a spec they were asked for .
    No they are not.

    What they need to make is tyres that get gradually slower as they wear down. Tyres that you have to change because they get too slow, that make you lose 5 seconds a lap if they are completely worn.
    They are not supposed to make tyres that keep the pace and then suddenly explode.

    Pirelli has been the tyre supplier for 10 years now and they still suck as bad as in the beginning. They still suddenly fall of the clip without much warning.

    Apparantly they just can't make the tyres formula one demands.

  6. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by denkimi View Post
    No they are not.

    What they need to make is tyres that get gradually slower as they wear down. Tyres that you have to change because they get too slow, that make you lose 5 seconds a lap if they are completely worn.
    They are not supposed to make tyres that keep the pace and then suddenly explode.

    Pirelli has been the tyre supplier for 10 years now and they still suck as bad as in the beginning. They still suddenly fall of the clip without much warning.

    Apparantly they just can't make the tyres formula one demands.
    Yes , they are .

    Bottas was complaining for a number of laps of vibrations , and you could see the graining very clearly on his and a number of others tires .
    This was clearly a sign they were in need of changing .
    It was not sudden at all , except for the final moment of deflation .

    Imagine trying to predict how long a given tire will last .
    First , you've got , say , a Williams car and a Merc works car .
    Are they going to use those tires at the same rate ?
    Add in the drivers , who have their different styles of driving , and you may have seemingly identical cars using the skins at very different rates .
    Then there's different set-ups for differing strategies , and it all makes for and almost impossible task to predict longevity .

    There are so many variables involved , you can bet the farm that nobody is taking a forty lap predicted life as gospel , but rather as a very rough estimate .
    They will last that long , without abuse .
    Abuse them , and they will pop .

  7. Likes: journeyman racer (6th August 2020),Tazio (5th August 2020)
  8. #66
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    Road cars are built so that the brakes start to squeal if the brake pads are wearing too thin. If F1 teams can't interpret vibrations and graining as signs of tire wear, maybe the FIA needs to get Perelli to make squealling tires. Mind you, then the teams would start asking "What is the maximum number of laps that the tires can squeal before they go pop?" Then they would proceed to gamble and go Max + 1 or Max + 2.........

  9. Likes: Bagwan (5th August 2020),Tazio (5th August 2020),truefan72 (6th August 2020)
  10. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bagwan View Post
    Yes , they are .

    Bottas was complaining for a number of laps of vibrations , and you could see the graining very clearly on his and a number of others tires .
    This was clearly a sign they were in need of changing .
    It was not sudden at all , except for the final moment of deflation .

    Imagine trying to predict how long a given tire will last .
    First , you've got , say , a Williams car and a Merc works car .
    Are they going to use those tires at the same rate ?
    Add in the drivers , who have their different styles of driving , and you may have seemingly identical cars using the skins at very different rates .
    Then there's different set-ups for differing strategies , and it all makes for and almost impossible task to predict longevity .

    There are so many variables involved , you can bet the farm that nobody is taking a forty lap predicted life as gospel , but rather as a very rough estimate .
    They will last that long , without abuse .
    Abuse them , and they will pop .
    You don't understand what i'm trying to say.

    Tyres should not explode before they have become so slow you are forced to change them anyway. They should not be only a little slower and then suddenly collapse, they should get gradually slower, a second per 10 laps or so.

    That way you can use them for as long as you want, but after 40 laps you will be 4 seconds a lap slower than someone with new tyres.

    Pirelli's f1 are the only tyres i know of that behave like that. Michelin's or bridgestone's didn't behaved like that.
    Pirelli's rally tyres also act normal as they should. Push them too far and you will start driving on ice. They will not explode, you will just lose massive amounts of time.

  11. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bagwan View Post
    Yes , they are .

    Bottas was complaining for a number of laps of vibrations , and you could see the graining very clearly on his and a number of others tires .
    This was clearly a sign they were in need of changing .
    It was not sudden at all , except for the final moment of deflation .

    Imagine trying to predict how long a given tire will last .
    First , you've got , say , a Williams car and a Merc works car .
    Are they going to use those tires at the same rate ?
    Add in the drivers , who have their different styles of driving , and you may have seemingly identical cars using the skins at very different rates .
    Then there's different set-ups for differing strategies , and it all makes for and almost impossible task to predict longevity .

    There are so many variables involved , you can bet the farm that nobody is taking a forty lap predicted life as gospel , but rather as a very rough estimate .
    They will last that long , without abuse .
    Abuse them , and they will pop .
    The teams asked Pirelli of what the maximun life of each tyres was and they responded with 40 laps for the hard C1 tyres. Meaning if you do not exceed 40 laps, the tyre will not explode. We could have concluded that the Mercedes car was too hard on its tyres but the same happened to Sainz in a Mclaren. The Mclaren uses a Mercedes engine but loads the tyres differently to the Petronas Mercedes car. Hence, we cannot blame the cars but clearly the tyres.

    It just doesn't look good having tyres brust during the race in this way. And it also is not acceptable to blame the teams for the tyres bursting. Especially as they followed the tyre operational specifications.

    The interesting thing about the puncture was that the tyres did not wear down to the canvas before it failed. The failure seem to start to manifest in the tyre walls which quickly delaminated the tyres surface from the side wall. Hence the characteristics of the failure is not one the teams would normally expect as all tyre sensors would be indicating that there was enough rubber to get the car home to the finish line.

    This is looking like a Pirelli short coming and they may not be able to talk themselves out of this one.
    Last edited by Nitrodaze; 6th August 2020 at 14:52.
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  12. #69
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    Apparently, Hamilton did 143 mph on three tyres to keep Verstapenn at bay. He was lucky as the other tyre was clearly starting to fragment. It could have also failed at the speed he was doing if his tyre troubles had started earlier in the lap than it did.

    What a crazy end to what seemed like an ordinary race.
    Better a witty fool than a foolish wit.
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  13. #70
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    Bagwan is right. Pirelli are asked to make junk tyres. How the teams use them is up to them. They're meant to be made to suit a particular car. The teams make adjustment in their car to make best use of the tyres. That's how it's supposed to be.

    For the races he doens't win, I thought that was Bottas' best one. Normally when he's behind Hamilton from the beginning, he slowly fades away. But there was a sustained stint behind Hamilton. It was pretty good. Hopefully he can do it more often.

  14. Likes: Bagwan (6th August 2020)

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