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  1. #1361
    Senior Member AnttiL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scn View Post
    The aforementioned safety issues and comparisons are not an opinion, they are facts.
    A fact should have a some sort of source. Single stories of positive experiences does not count. It's like saying you don't need helmets in rally cars because they used to drive Safari without helmets and no one died. Or you can drive in road traffic without seat belts etc.

    Also, good to remember that in the days when the sport didn't stop its drivers to continue on three wheels, police often did so.

  2. Likes: cali (24th January 2021),Fredouye (24th January 2021)
  3. #1362
    Senior Member AnttiL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rallyper View Post
    Huge expence? For saving a driver still be around, not going home? Investing millions in a car and driver, it should be a no cost to keep them stay in a rally, having a spare for the last liasion...
    I ask for the third time, how many retirements we have seen in the last 10 years because of a double puncture at the end of a loop?

  4. Likes: cali (24th January 2021)
  5. #1363
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnttiL View Post
    A fact should have a some sort of source. Single stories of positive experiences does not count.
    The fact is that in stages there have been many accidents because a driver drove on a rim and some of them at totally unexpected places. The fact is also that since 1984 that I have been a spectator and since 1993 that I have been a driver, I haven't heard a single accident in a liaison section because of this.
    Please mention one such accident.
    Do you want me to post videos of cars going out in a special stage because of driving on a flat tyre?

    PS. Experience DOES count. The comparisons with driving without helmets and seat belts are totally contrary to experience.
    Last edited by scn; 24th January 2021 at 21:59.

  6. Likes: Rallyper (25th January 2021)
  7. #1364
    Senior Member cali's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by meh View Post
    We have vegans who need to state everywhere that they are vegans.
    We have no Sanders (meme) sitting in every picture.
    .. and now we have Mirek who need to write often "but Tänak made wrong tyre choice!"

    get over it, Tänak rerired, rally is over, life goes on. Breath.
    Somehow i see that Tänak fanboys can't get over it, not Mirek. Now get over it and accept the rules in the business!

    Sent from my GM1913 using Tapatalk
    Last edited by cali; 24th January 2021 at 22:03.

  8. Likes: pantealex (25th January 2021)
  9. #1365
    Senior Member cali's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scn View Post
    Rules are rules and should be respected.
    However, can someone tell me one, only one, accident that has happened because a rally driver drove in liaison sections on a rim? Please mention one accident, and I am willing to forget all the things I have seen from Bjorn Waldegard, Kenneth Eriksson, Seb Loeb and so many others driving, not on a rim but without even a rim. Please mention one such accident. Otherwise, I will remain on the side of Bjorn, Kenneth and Seb.

    To be honest, as a driver I find this rule hypocritical, to say the least. I have driven stages on a rim (including a very tough Acropolis stage) and so have done almost all drivers. The safety issue is much more important IN a special stage, not in a liasion section, especially these days that average speeds in liasion section are very low. I have seen Bjorn driving like a maniac in 5th gear on a rim, in a stage full of spectators, and Kenneth driving two stages the Golf with the rear axle hitting the ground, not slowly at all, and then fix the car and go on to win his class. Both of them, as well as the rest I have seen, including myself, WERE NOT DANGEROUS in the liasion section driving in normal speeds. All of them, including myself, were dangerous for the spectators IN THE STAGE. This is why I find this rule hypocritical.

    P.S. In my opinion, Ott in a WRC car on 3 wheels is much safer in normal road speeds than 99% of drivers in usual cars on 4 wheels. However, this is just an opinion and should only be regarded as an opinion. The aforementioned safety issues and comparisons are not an opinion, they are facts.
    So you need an accident to be proven otherwise? IMHO driving on public roads with 3 wheels is forbidden anywhere and with any car which has 4 wheels registered.

    I don't get your logic honestly

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    Last edited by cali; 24th January 2021 at 22:02.

  10. #1366
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    Quote Originally Posted by cali View Post
    So you need an accident to proven otherwise? IMHO driving on public roads with 3 wheels is forbidden anywhere and with any car which has 4 wheels registered.

    I don't get your logic honestly

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    Logic is, first the hypocricy. If someone really put "safety first", he should ban driving in a SS on a rim. However, I think we all agree that this would not be rallying. Second part of logic is that, formalities and "correctnesses" should be judged in such a sport, having always in mind the essence of it. All of you remember Seb driving with Daniel hanging from the window. It is a memory of the sport, and it is a part of the essence of this sport. Same applies for Bjorn engaging 5th alongside a huge cliff, with on tyre less. This is also part of the essence of rallying. If something does not pose ACTUAL danger to the public, please, let it be. Ott with his WRC driving at 60 kph is safer than most of us even if he had only two wheels.
    Last edited by scn; 24th January 2021 at 22:13.

  11. #1367
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnttiL View Post
    I'm asking again, can you name the cases when a double puncture occurred at the last stage of a leg, resulting in a retirement? I don't remember any. Seems like a very corner case.
    You sound like a school teacher talking to a naughty pupil.
    Not really bothered if it’s happened in the past or not.

  12. Likes: AndyRAC (25th January 2021)
  13. #1368
    Senior Member cali's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scn View Post
    Logic is, first the hypocricy. If someone really put "safety first", he should ban driving in a SS on a rim. However, I think we all agree that this would not be rallying. Second part of logic is that, formalities and "correctnesses" should be judged in such a sport, having always in mind the essence of it. All of you remember Seb driving with Daniel hanging from the window. It is a memory of the sport, and it is a part of the essence of this sport. Same applies for Bjorn engaging 5th alongside a huge cliff, with on tyre less. This is also part of the essence of rallying. If something does not pose ACTUAL danger to the public, please, let it be. Ott with his WRC driving at 60 kph is safer than most of us even if he had only two wheels.
    So my question is - is it legal to drive on 3 wheels or not? Simple answer yes or no.

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  14. Likes: WRC1 (26th January 2021)
  15. #1369
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    Quote Originally Posted by cali View Post
    So my question is - is it legal to drive on 3 wheels or not? Simple answer yes or no.

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    Of course it is not legal. Also, is it legal to drive a car with a roll-cage, a car with high emmissions, a car without MOT tyres, a car with racing seat belts? Simple answer, yes or no?

    In my country all the above are illegal. So, let's do rallying without roll-cages, with low emmissions, only with MOT tyres and with MOT approved seat belts. Agree?

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  17. Likes: Rallyper (25th January 2021)

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