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  1. #181
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    Its werid cuz there is some people here in Brazil saying things like that. That Dengue and Zika kills more people per year. That the Flu kills the same amount of people every year... But I keep looking for this Data and I never find! Dengue kills 1k people/year here sometimes. The Flu is big, bit its not 10% of the Covid deaths....

    Heart disseasses kills like +100k people/year here but its unfair to say that "no one cares" when tons of money has being putted into research and treatments literally every year. It used to be +400k deaths per year from heart disseasses. It used to be a million. I believe its the same for the europeans country.
    Medicine and science keeps progressing in these areas every year. With Covid I hope its going to be the same because it is a thing that one person can infect another one. Its not just Genes or personal health (diet, exercise, drugs, stress...)
    Its never "ok" to see +200k more deaths per year because of a virus, u'know? I mean... I dont want to see +200k extra people dying... But some want. What can I do? =[

  2. Likes: AnttiL (17th April 2021),pantealex (18th April 2021)
  3. #182
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    Random thought: How you guys honestly see "Brazil" out there in europe?

    Tip: Our minimum wage is like... 200 euros/month (I know its not fair to convert like this but just for the example)
    I always imagine people think Brazil is an "ok country" but we are very poor. Rio de Janeiro's beachs are rich... And the Sao Paulo city is rich. Some of the states capital are decent too. The rest of the country is not like that. Its a very poor country that pretends to be rich

  4. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by lmmjvss View Post
    There wasnt a virus killing +200k "extra" people per year down here, mate.
    Yet, even without that big killer virus people, except for the last 10 years, people in belgium died faster since always.

    It seems brasil is a little bit more backwards, we have to go back to 90's to get the same or higher death ratios as today.

    But i don't remember horror story's about those times. It seems people didn't care when far more people died in the past, but now suddenly they do.

    3 millions deaths due to covid and a 120 million deaths expected due to the famine created by the hysteria about corona.
    We really have done well.

  5. Likes: bisak (20th April 2021)
  6. #184
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    Thats what I said. If you look back there were more people dying from certains disseasses or conditions.
    The reason why its not like that anymore is because we put money and research into it. Thats what we are doing with the chin-chin virus right now. There will be WAY fewer deaths in the next years and thats great!
    Just dont say "no one cared back then" cuz we did! Tons of money were put into research and medicine.
    Thats the idea. BUT with the virus is a little worst because it is higly contagious. Its not like heart disseasse or a pulmonar disseasse caused by cigarrettes. I think you understand the difference.

    And I agree on the economic problems that are already here. Trust me. I lost my job and the part time job I was doing. It is hard, bro. And this is were we should be all together demanding our taxes 'back' from the government. They have been colecting our money since ever. They made themselver rich out of our pockets. Why arent we on the streets telling them to "hey, cut your millionaire salaries and give it back to the people. Hey stop charging for the electric and water bills" (here is a state thing. Not sure if it is privatized in europe).
    But nope... All we see is this thing we are doing right now.
    Two people fighting on the internet because we are kinda 'richierISH' and we CAN stay up talking Sh*t on the internet while others are dying from the virus and famine. We are all hypocrites.

  7. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by denkimi View Post
    It seems people didn't care when far more people died in the past
    If nobody cared why has tobacco advertising been banned?

    Why has smoking in public buildings been banned?

    Why has a huge sum been spent on developing cures for cancer?

    The reduction in deaths has come from long steady work against long term illnesses. People weren't dropping dead fom infections 10 or 20 years ago because they had been vaccinated against the serious diseases that were killing and crippling people 50 years ago like smallpox, and polio.

  8. Likes: AnttiL (18th April 2021),cali (20th April 2021),pantealex (18th April 2021),tommeke_B (18th April 2021)
  9. #186
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    All valid points raised. Unless I have missed them, I would only add three others (fortunately only first two affect me personally through very close relatives of mine):

    - Severe impact on education
    - Inability to get or substantially delayed treatment for other serious illnesses
    - Children's self harm and children's domestic violence rates increase

    Governments' job is to of course ensure that the prevention/treatment for a disease is not as bad as the disease.

  10. Likes: Mirek (26th April 2021)
  11. #187
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    Scientific Analyses and Papers on Lockdown Effectiveness

    I realize this is more difficult to comprehend than watching your stupid government funded mainstream media but give it a shot.

  12. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by bisak View Post
    Scientific Analyses and Papers on Lockdown Effectiveness

    I realize this is more difficult to comprehend than watching your stupid government funded mainstream media but give it a shot.
    First you claim there is no medical issue... so all these extra deaths didn't happen.

    When proven wrong you start "arguing" that lockdown is not right...

    Have you actually read any of those papers? I read some of those that are from actual journals before and none said that covid doesn't exist or isn't a medical issue. Just that "lockdown only" might not be the best response.

    What is the best response is at this point hard to tell, more specifically the details of such response.

    For example close schools? yes/no/hybrid solutions (only every second week, only some age span, smaller classes etc..)). There are tons of options in every part of society and now also lots of different "solutions" practiced around the world. Which is why there will for sure be a lot of research on it moving forward with likely ( and hopefully) lot of different views. After a few years the conclusions will converge on some common agreement. That's how science works.

    The conclusion might be that lockdown wasn't best, (what is "lockdown" anyway? In some countries it meant that you couldn't go outside your house/flat in others it only meant that restaurants and concerts closed)

    but I am 100% sure that it won't be that "there wasn't any medical issue".



    Anyway the last sentence of your post together with your previous post seems to suggest that it's pointless to respond to you. So I'll stop and instead go eat dinner with my wife that just came home after another day at intensive care full of COVID patients.

  13. Likes: AnttiL (20th April 2021),b3637853 (21st April 2021),cali (21st April 2021),Eli (26th April 2021),Gregor-y (27th April 2021),lmmjvss (20th April 2021),meh (26th April 2021),pantealex (20th April 2021),satnav (20th April 2021),skarderud (21st April 2021)
  14. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by bisak View Post
    Scientific Analyses and Papers on Lockdown Effectiveness

    I realize this is more difficult to comprehend than watching your stupid government funded mainstream media but give it a shot.

    Gonna be honest here. Im not so sure these current weird lockdowns are reaaaaally the best solution but I cant blame them. The first one in 2020 was literally a fear response. A new thing killing hundreds of people, tons of sick people in the hospitals. Imagine you are the major of a city. It is scary as hell! No one knew what to do! Masks werent required down here until april or may because they didnt know for sure if it was airbone or not.
    Not only that... With filled hospitals, the health systems started to colapse. So keeping people inside was good to reduce the spreading and the hospital's roms and beds. They had time to buy more equipament and beds. We need to be thankfull for this because it could have been one of us in the need to use it, u'know? Its like... we should want the best for everybody. It is good for us all.
    Again.. Im not 100% on board with the current actions but WHAT can we do? They tried to reduce restaurant and bar capacitaty..but People dont give a s**. I work at a bar. We were having +100/day. No one using masks.
    So.. its like. People are stupid, they dont collaborate with the common sense. Thats a fact. Thats why numbers started to rise again. Here in my country the numbers are finally lower than 3k deaths per day. It took almost a month for the numbers to drop cuz this is how it works... So, IT IS good in this subject. But I agree with some of the other points. Tons of decent articles talking about how the lockdown will be bad in some areas, for some poorer people, anxious, economy....
    We agree. No one here is denying this part mate.
    But again.. what can We do? They tried counting on people's common sense. it didnt worked! But its a contagious virus, not an INDIVUAL's problem. Its colective. Cuz anyone can spread this thing.
    Last edited by lmmjvss; 20th April 2021 at 17:26.

  15. #190
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    The masks were not required not because it was no certain if the virus is airborne, but because there were not enough masks avaiable. First concern of governing bodies is "not to spread panic" as always. That is why official information should to be treated with reasonable caution.

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