Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 40
  1. #1
    Senior Member truefan72's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Philadelphia
    Posts
    5,427
    Like
    886
    Liked 264 Times in 197 Posts

    Ferrari once again escapes punishment SMH

    So late in the afternoon this news story broke:
    https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/14...ri-2019-engine

    Once again, Ferrari escape any kind of punishment or condemnation for basically running an illegal engine or flat out cheating for half the season.
    WTF kind of statement is this?
    why a closed settlement? and why don't we get the amount they were fined? Also what exactly did they do to earn that fine?
    This is all BS to me and as long as Todt is head of the fIA, ferrari will get away with everything.

    In 2007 Mclaren were fined $100M for possession of documents illegally obtained from Ferrari. Even though it is hard to say if it was used at all.

    At the time the fIa said the punishment was that high in part due to the insistence by McLaren that they did nothing wrong, and hence, lied.

    In 2019 Ferrari insisted up and down that their engine was legal and they did nothing wrong. Even though it was plain as day to anyone with half a brain that something was not right. This to me is even worse than what Mclaren did. They flat out cheated and won races with an illegal engine. This is about the worst thing you can do and they get away with it.

    Other teams were getting points deducted for minor infringements, even during that season. So why not Ferrari?

    At a bare minimum they should be stripped of all points from Spa, Monza, Singapore, and Japan. In fact, i would have stripped them of all points for all events after budapest and whatever constructor money they got, should be reallocated to the other teams rightfully tabulated once their results get nullified.

    This is a shambolic excuse of a statement, light on the details and even more incredulous if you take particular note of this part.
    "The FIA and Scuderia Ferrari have agreed to a number of technical commitments that will improve the monitoring of all Formula 1 power units for forthcoming championship seasons as well as assist the FIA in other regulatory duties in Formula 1 and in its research activities on carbon emissions and sustainable fuels."

    So not only do they get away with it, with an undisclosed fine, but they get to work in monitoring other teams engines???
    Madness. Just another chapter in a massive book of infringements they have gotten away with over the years because they are "Ferrari"
    I have no faith whatsoever in the fIA being a fair arbiter of their own sport.
    I seriously hope the other teams mount a serious protest or legal action against them. Not just for the principle, but for the financial loss they have accrued from being cheated on by ferrari.
    Last edited by truefan72; 29th February 2020 at 07:50.
    you can't argue with results. 2019 FGP 2nd Place ;)

  2. Likes: Zico (1st March 2020)
  3. #2
    Admin pino's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Sanremo Italy
    Posts
    25,975
    Like
    264
    Liked 281 Times in 189 Posts

    Ferrari once again escapes punishment SMH

    From the article and link you posted:

    “A number of teams wrote to the FIA to seek clarification about design aspects of its power unit, though Ferrari was never found to be in breach of the regulations, and no rival formally protested the outfit.”

    When you're tired of rallying...you're tired of life

  4. Likes: airshifter (1st March 2020)
  5. #3
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    2,493
    Like
    53
    Liked 368 Times in 281 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by pino View Post
    From the article and link you posted:

    “A number of teams wrote to the FIA to seek clarification about design aspects of its power unit, though Ferrari was never found to be in breach of the regulations, and no rival formally protested the outfit.”

    As much as I commend your efforts to deflect from the obvious but the issue here id the “settlement” part. I’ve never heard of the FIA reaching a settlement with a team before. It’s nonsense. It must be clearcut and transparent. They either cheated or they didn’t, no fuzziness. If I were the teams I would be considering legal action here if full disclosure is not made on the settlement details.

    It’s complete utter nonsense what has happened here.

  6. Likes: airshifter (1st March 2020),truefan72 (2nd March 2020),Zico (1st March 2020)
  7. #4
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Posts
    5,402
    Like
    336
    Liked 274 Times in 208 Posts
    I see both sides on this issue. I have to wonder if the FIA actually found anything that could be deemed "illegal" at all, since they really haven't disclosed anything. But they found something, and came to some sort of settlement. It could be as simple as DAS.... something never officially protested and therefore not illegal.

    But on the flip side, they should be completely transparent in what is going on. If DAS is officially protested at the start of the season, I suspect they will fully disclose what they determine, regardless of outcome. But if Ferrari got away with something that was in fact illegal, but never officially protested, the FIA might be walking on slippery ground.

    I really don't know which way to go on this one. We shouldn't allow anything that is proven illegal, but should we allow in depth investigations without official protests? If the FIA start investigating teams based on media and driver speculation, we could be in for a world of nonsense that is never ending.

  8. #5
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    2,507
    Like
    107
    Liked 138 Times in 92 Posts
    Oh boy.. A settlement? For what? Zero transparency = coverup. Incredible... The smell of FIA corruption and double standards is honkingly stinky with this one.

    Just wow..
    The emergence of the new 'Rainmaster' - Mad Max at Interlagos 2016!

  9. Likes: truefan72 (2nd March 2020)
  10. #6
    Senior Member N. Jones's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Woodridge, Illinois, USA
    Posts
    4,006
    Like
    288
    Liked 498 Times in 318 Posts
    Considering Red Bull during 2010-2013 were using traction control, which is illegal, and no one complained, I do not see the problem here.
    " Lady - I'm in an awful dilemma.
    Moe - Yeah, I never cared much for these foreign cars either."

  11. #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    2,507
    Like
    107
    Liked 138 Times in 92 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by N. Jones View Post
    Considering Red Bull during 2010-2013 were using traction control, which is illegal, and no one complained, I do not see the problem here.

    Are you referring to the clip.in this article?

    https://jalopnik.com/has-red-bull-fi...-con-514107361

    I'm not convinced by that at all... If RB's rivals had concerns back then that they might be doing TC.. I'd take a lot more notice.


    This issue is totally different in that the FIA have investigated Ferrari due to the concerns raised by RB and the fact they have reached a 'settlement' which I assume to be a financial settlement? which suggests to me that they found something they shouldnt have.

    Looks like Ferrari can do whatever illegal things they want with impunity,, safe in the knowledge that the crime will be covered up and the punishment a mere slap on the wrist.
    The emergence of the new 'Rainmaster' - Mad Max at Interlagos 2016!

  12. Likes: truefan72 (3rd March 2020)
  13. #8
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    1,553
    Like
    68
    Liked 162 Times in 121 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by N. Jones View Post
    Considering Red Bull during 2010-2013 were using traction control, which is illegal, and no one complained, I do not see the problem here.

    This is a complete utter bullshit claim. It's sad that someone is still repeating it or using as some kind of argument.

  14. #9
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Posts
    7,753
    Like
    63
    Liked 425 Times in 340 Posts
    So , what if (and this is just conjecture here) Ferrari were making the fuel sensor flutter to use more than their rivals , and it simply doesn't say you can't screw with the metering system ?
    Would it have just been clever , or would it have been against the spirit of the rules ?

    I have no real idea if this was the issue or not , but would it be right to bring the issue out in public if the only likely outcome would be a beating for the Ferrari brand .

    I think there is room for an argument either way , and , so I am seeing a reason for the wording of the document from the FIA using "settlement" .

    I expect that what was done wasn't "expressly forbidden" , like not adding a tube that goes around or passes by a sensor , but by altering the sensor's function itself .

    It seems to be within the rules to have the deal between the two parties (FIA and Ferrari) alone , so it seems like the teams complaining may be on thin ice to a degree , although it doesn't seem very right from their point of view .

  15. #10
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    2,507
    Like
    107
    Liked 138 Times in 92 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Bagwan View Post
    So , what if (and this is just conjecture here) Ferrari were making the fuel sensor flutter to use more than their rivals , and it simply doesn't say you can't screw with the metering system ?
    Would it have just been clever , or would it have been against the spirit of the rules ?

    I have no real idea if this was the issue or not , but would it be right to bring the issue out in public if the only likely outcome would be a beating for the Ferrari brand .

    I think there is room for an argument either way , and , so I am seeing a reason for the wording of the document from the FIA using "settlement" .

    I expect that what was done wasn't "expressly forbidden" , like not adding a tube that goes around or passes by a sensor , but by altering the sensor's function itself .

    It seems to be within the rules to have the deal between the two parties (FIA and Ferrari) alone , so it seems like the teams complaining may be on thin ice to a degree , although it doesn't seem very right from their point of view .

    All the Ferrari fans seem to be taking the uproar against the FIA as an attack on Ferrari... its not. For me this criticism is about the FIA rather than Ferrari.


    What is the sole purpose of the fuel meter?

    If you are causing the fuel meter to under read and gain more power in doing so... you are still bypassing the fuel meters functionality whether its a physical one or otherwise.

    I think its not so dissimilar to when Toyota got caught using a modified turbo air restrictor in rallying. When the scrutineers released the fuel hose clip the spring loaded restrictor snapped back into the legal restriction position. Toyota got banned and thrown out the championship for a year.


    For me this is not about what Ferrari may or may not have done...its about the FIA's bringing the sport into disrepute by not being transparent and just covering the issue up.
    If I was a team boss considering entering F1, I'd be having massive second thoughts after that FIA revelation.



    All the non Ferrari teams have released a joint statement today..


    ...."An international sporting regulator has the responsibility to act with the highest standards of governance, integrity and transparency.

    "After months of investigations that were undertaken by the FIA only following queries raised by other teams, we strongly object to the FIA reaching a confidential settlement agreement with Ferrari to conclude this matter.

    "Therefore, we hereby state publicly our shared commitment to pursue full and proper disclosure in this matter, to ensure that our sport treats all competitors fairly and equally. We do so on behalf of the fans, the participants and the stakeholders of Formula 1.

    "In addition, we reserve our rights to seek legal redress, within the FIA's due process and before the competent courts."


    This statement echos my own exact thoughts and feelings...
    Last edited by Zico; 4th March 2020 at 19:51.
    The emergence of the new 'Rainmaster' - Mad Max at Interlagos 2016!

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •