All aboard Max's hype train or not?

[journeyman racer]

There's merit in saying Bottas is quicker than Verstappen in isolation. But the point of this thread is to diminish Verstappen, since there's merit in saying that Verstappen is overall inherently more talented than Hamilton.

Verstappen also has an army of idiots that blindly follow him similar to what Hamilton has. They can shout as loud as Hamilton fans can, and they can come up with all the BS reasons why Verstappen is the best, they way Hamilton could. They can also pick holes in Hamilton record which can't be denied by Hamilton fans.

I'll tell you something about Hamilton which his fans can't deny. You'll never hear rumours of him going to RB while Verstappen is there.

Bottas is an interesting one as Zico clearly doesn't rate him at all. Obviously I do, and I think it's possible for him to overcome the position he's in to WC.

Vettel was used as a measure in comparison? What's forgotten though is that Bottas has beaten Vettel driving and inferior car, but has also been beaten by Vettel when driving a superior car.

Bottas has 7 wins, but is diminished because he's driving "the best car", and Hamilton has won a lot more. But in light of confirmation on how F1 teams operate, I think it's best to review Bottas record at MB.

Bottas has 7 wins, and all of them are legit. On those days, he's been the best driver on the day, and distinctly the best MB driver on those days. There's no freebies with his wins. No inheriting the lead when 15 secs behind Hamilton, who then broke down in the latter stages of the race. No "Thanks for helping out Valtteri, I'll handball this race to you in appreciation.". No wins thanks to a change of strategy like Hamilton has.

Now obviously with MB being slanted towards Hamilton, Bottas is swimming uphill a bit despite driving the best car. Because none of his wins aren't tainted, and he's been legitimately the best on the day. I think he should still be thought as a genuine top driver.

[airshifter]

As always, the problem is the cars. Without equal comparison, it's hard to say where any driver matches up exactly, even within the same team.

That said, Max is not going to back down from a fight. I would rate him as one of the top wheel to wheel racers of the last few years, but he needs to up his mental game and maturity. On the flip side you have Hamilton, who though proven to be a great wheel to wheel racer in the past, has rarely had to do it much recently. The car advantage and him upping his game in race management with lower risk have allowed him to spend less time banging wheels with other drivers.

Only time will tell, but I personally don't see a hype train. I see an article that shows one persons opinion which I could differ with in many ways.


But I predict Max and Charles will be the next new WDCs unless they make really bad team moves.

[zako85]

Say what you say, but I am glad that someone like Verstappen finally happened. We're not too far from Hamilton and Vettel retiring, and then Verstappen will carry the torch, he will be the standard to beat. He is the next generation. He was less lucky than Vettel, because he joined Red Bull when the team was struggling to catch the front runner. I would be curious to see what happened if Verstappen joined Red Bull in 2011 or 2012.

[journeyman racer]

Carry the torch?

What torch?

[Zico]

Carry the torch?

What torch?

Bottas's torch!

[Zico]

There's merit in saying Bottas is quicker than Verstappen in isolation. But the point of this thread is to diminish Verstappen, since there's merit in saying that Verstappen is overall inherently more talented than Hamilton.

Verstappen also has an army of idiots that blindly follow him similar to what Hamilton has. They can shout as loud as Hamilton fans can, and they can come up with all the BS reasons why Verstappen is the best, they way Hamilton could. They can also pick holes in Hamilton record which can't be denied by Hamilton fans.

I'll tell you something about Hamilton which his fans can't deny. You'll never hear rumours of him going to RB while Verstappen is there.

Bottas is an interesting one as Zico clearly doesn't rate him at all. Obviously I do, and I think it's possible for him to overcome the position he's in to WC.

Vettel was used as a measure in comparison? What's forgotten though is that Bottas has beaten Vettel driving and inferior car, but has also been beaten by Vettel when driving a superior car.

Bottas has 7 wins, but is diminished because he's driving "the best car", and Hamilton has won a lot more. But in light of confirmation on how F1 teams operate, I think it's best to review Bottas record at MB.

Bottas has 7 wins, and all of them are legit. On those days, he's been the best driver on the day, and distinctly the best MB driver on those days. There's no freebies with his wins. No inheriting the lead when 15 secs behind Hamilton, who then broke down in the latter stages of the race. No "Thanks for helping out Valtteri, I'll handball this race to you in appreciation.". No wins thanks to a change of strategy like Hamilton has.

Now obviously with MB being slanted towards Hamilton, Bottas is swimming uphill a bit despite driving the best car. Because none of his wins aren't tainted, and he's been legitimately the best on the day. I think he should still be thought as a genuine top driver.

Bottas is a solid driver and one who could definately win a WDC if he had a slower team mate and the best car... but then at least 1/3 of the grid could probably do that. I just dont see him quite in the same league as Lewis, Max or Charles.

I am a fan of Max, very quick, exciting to watch, extremely focused, a real wheel to wheel racer, he has his faults..a bit banzai optimistic at times but he has clearly worked on the key areas, improved in a lot... and is now looking to be the real deal who could win many WDC's if winds up at Merc or Ferrari... but I'm certainly not a fanboy who cant see past a single driver. I'm equally also a fan of Fernando, Lewis, Charles, Daniel, Carlos, Lando and George Russell.

It sometimes makes me wonder if TBK has ever really watched anyone else other than Lewis... All I seem to read on here is Lewis, Lewis, Lewis... Yeah, he's really good, we all know that and most of us are fans of him too.. but it really starts to grate on you after a few years of it.. There are some other really great drivers too you know.
This forum used to be a great place for a lot of technical discussions, sadly that side of things has died a bit, maybe interest in F1 has waned for some members in recent years. Hope the 2021 rules can at least address some of the issues and bring some of the old guard back as this just aint what it used to be..

[Mia 01]

For the moment I think the Leclerc hype is stronger than the Max one. Charles is just as fast as Max and have better race Craft.

[Nitrodaze]

For the moment I think the Leclerc hype is stronger than the Max one. Charles is just as fast as Max and have better race Craft.

Lady Ferrari, happy New Year to you :-)