The 2019 Season - Your Verdict

[Nitrodaze]

I don't like this opinion of yours. Schumacher is this great character that is the barometer where all drivers are judged by. A heroic character like in the movies. From Hakkinen's pov, Schumacher is just another guy, who he knows he can beat in an equal situation. You'd recognise this from his Beyond The Grid interview.

If you cannot appreciate the achievements of Schumacher, then you do not understand racing. I begin to see why you do not appreciate Hamilton. Hakkinen was awesome but not in the Schumacher or Hamilton sense of the word. These guys are in a league of their own and Hakkinen is miles away from it.

[Nitrodaze]

I don't like this opinion of yours. Schumacher is this great character that is the barometer where all drivers are judged by. A heroic character like in the movies. From Hakkinen's pov, Schumacher is just another guy, who he knows he can beat in an equal situation. You'd recognise this from his Beyond The Grid interview.

If you cannot appreciate the achievements of Schumacher, then you do not understand racing. I begin to see why you do not appreciate Hamilton. Hakkinen was awesome but not in the Schumacher or Hamilton sense of the word. These guys are in a league of their own and Hakkinen is miles away from it.

To win one F1 driver championship is awesome. To win two is double awesome. To win three is mega-awesome. To win six is surreal and simply amazing. The only living able bodied person qualified to comment on what it means or what it takes to achieve such superhuman feat is five times world champion Alain Prost. Unfortunately, Hakkinen do not qualify as he does not know nor has he the experience to say what it takes to win more than five F1 driver titles. Thus, it is a misplaced assertion to say Schumacher was just another guy he was racing. Schumacher was the guy to beat. He was the benchmark to which drivers of his time were measured.

The junior formulas do not count for much in F1. It is what one does in a F1 car on race day that matters. And Schumacher smashed all the records and set new ones, many of which are still unbroken. Get real man.

[journeyman racer]

Like I said Hakkinen's opinion> Your opinion.

For you, and many other fans, F1 is just a tv show. Whereas Hakkinen has lived through all the experiences F1 has to offer.

Hakkinen gives the listeners an insight into what goes on in F1. Three anonymous posters try to diminish the value of Hakkinen's insights.

Yeah, good one.

[journeyman racer]

Schumacher is just another guy for Hakkinen to beat. It's you that exaggerates Schumacher's driving to Hakkinen.

From 27:39

Mark, the host of the podcast -

"The incredible complexity of Formula 1 cars today and the precision with which they're designed, and engineered, and operated. So if a team builds a car around Lewis Hamilton, then Valtteri Bottas has to effectively adjust to that, or if it's built around Sebastien Vettel, then Charles Leclerc perhaps has to accommodate the way it's driven, so it actually becomes a factor."

"So although the cars are not, the cars are not really designed for each individual driver, they're designed for the way the team expects to get the most out, usually out of the guy they see as they number one driver?"

Hakkinen - "That is correct."

Mika Hakkinen has done everything in F1. He's just told you how F1 teams operate, but you're going to question him?

gm99 is, lamely, going to bring up that Bottas is managed by a company Hakkinen co-owns?

When he's talking about Gasly and RB, it's got nothing to do with his management company. He's just telling you how F1 teams operate.

Trying to diminish Hakkinen puts you at the latter point of your signature. Elevating Schumacher and Hamilton because they've accumulated more stats has nothing to do with the merit of their driving abilities.

It's like saying that Hakkinen went to a restaurant twice to eat pizza, Hamilton went 6 six to eat pizza, and Schumacher 7 times to eat pizza.

"Hakkinen will never know the superhuman effort it takes to eat pizza 6-7 times."

[Nitrodaze]

Like I said Hakkinen's opinion> Your opinion.

For you, and many other fans, F1 is just a tv show. Whereas Hakkinen has lived through all the experiences F1 has to offer.

Hakkinen gives the listeners an insight into what goes on in F1. Three anonymous posters try to diminish the value of Hakkinen's insights.

Yeah, good one.

Not really, you are expanding what l have said to include everything Hakkinen has said. I have disputed only one aspect, the bit about the Mercedes car been designed exclusively for Hamilton which suggest why after three seasons Bottas is not measuring up. l see l have touched a sore point for you, l have doubted the words of your hero. Man up buddy, that is the point of this forum to review and discuss everything about motorsport including whatever our heros have to say.

[journeyman racer]

Since MB became the dominant team. At 326pts (even 323 excluding fl points), Bottas has scored the second most points for a guy 2nd in the championship.

What is the minimum you'd expect him to do?

[Nitrodaze]

Since MB became the dominant team. At 326pts (even 323 excluding fl points), Bottas has scored the second most points for a guy 2nd in the championship.

What is the minimum you'd expect him to do?

Fair point. 2019 was an excellent year for Bottas. But let us not take that out of perspective, he was within beating distance of Leclerc in the Ferrari if Ferrari had not imploded again. And within Verstapenns reach with a bit of luck. That said, Bottas put in a very strong end of season races to pull himself clear of the competition.

The question in everyones mind is, in his fourth season can he give Hamilton a proper challenge in 2020. He has enjoyed an unusual patience from Mercedes. With his first two seasons performances, he would have been given the boot if he were at Redbull or Ferrari. Instead, he has enjoyed three seasons and is going into his fourth on the back of being the 2019 runner up. I think you can see how influencial Hakkinen is at Mercedes fighting his corner. Without that support which most drivers on the grid do not enjoy; Ricciado for instance, Bottas would have lost his drive a long time ago.

Unlike the likes of Bottas, Verstapenn, Sainz and Stroll with very influencial people backing them, drivers like Ricciado, Hamilton, Leclerc, Vettel, Kyvat, Perez, Albon etc all have to do it on their own merit, with the knowledge that their performances is what stands between their relevance and the door. As Hulkkenburg has discovered this season.

[journeyman racer]

The question in everyones mind is, in his fourth season can he give Hamilton a proper challenge in 2020.

That's why we're going to watch.

He has enjoyed an unusual patience from Mercedes. With his first two seasons performances, he would have been given the boot if he were at Redbull or Ferrari.

RB probably, but not Ferrari if the designated no1 was winning.

Otherwise, have you ever considered why he's been given contracts, when a lot of fans don't rate him?

I'll ask the question a different way. If 326pts and 4 wins isn't good enough for you. How many points/wins should Bottas have got in 2019?

[journeyman racer]

What, now you're not going to respond?

Just to digress a bit, re-reading Nitrodaze's posts.

I think there has to be an acknowledgement of different points of view. What you see is not necessarily what guys who've done it, like Hakkinen, see. Someone like him is not bewildered by F1 like what fans are.

Anyway, in light of Nitrodaze's post at the top, I was a bit confused as to what he's saying. Then it occurred to me "Oh yeah, Nitrodaze is an F1 fan. As opposed to a motor racing fan, where F1 is the top level. Just like almost all F1 fans.

Typically, F1 fans couldn't care less about other racing and embellish everything about F1.

Dare I say for F1 fans (And maybe Nitrodaze), F1 is this uber world where only the elite are present. An F1 car is this wild mechanical beast, and you need this incredible will to tame it. Michael Schumacher (And Lewis Hamilton) is like this being from another superior world, with these unimaginable powers to deal with the extraordinary challenge of an F1 car. To an F1 fan, a F3 is a POS they couldn't care less about.

But that's not how Mika Hakkinen sees F1 and racing. You can tell from listening to him in all his interviews (Certainly the ones I've heard).

For Mika Hakkinen, a F3 car is just a racing car. An F1 car is just another racing car as well. An F1 car is more powerful, faster, and requires more concentration to drive, but just another racing car.

For Mika Hakkinen, Michael Schumacher is like a guy you knew at a place you used to work at. We had some disagreements over a few things, but he's alright. He's good at his job and produced some great results. But he's not better than me at doing the job.

Subsequently, it's like that guy still works for that company, where you've moved onto another employer or field of work.

For some of you, it might seem unbelievable that F1 could be seen as so dull. But that's how it is for him relative to us, and why he's a legend WC, and we're posters on this site.

From his pov, he's beaten Schumacher in F3 in even circumstances, and flogged him on his home turf. He's knows he's better, but he knows it won't necessarily translate to F1.

1991 - Beaten by Schumacher, with a much better car.
1992 - Beaten by Schumacher, with a much better car.
1993 - He drove only 3 races, with Schumacher having the factory Ford engine.
1994 - Beaten by Schumacher, with a much better car.
1995 - Beaten by Schumacher, with a much better car.
1996 - Beaten by Schumacher, with a better car.
1997 - Beaten by Schumacher, with a better car.
1998 - When he finally had a better car than Schumacher, he won the WC.
1999 - Schumacher broke his leg, but Hakkinen was leading by a clear margin in the points.
2000 - Beaten by Schumacher, with a marginally better car and favourable team/tyre situation
2001 - Beaten by Schumacher, with a better car. But lost his modjo and didn't care and retired.

He's worked with Ayrton Senna and Alain Prost. So between those two, there's nothing even Hamilton has done that would wildly impress him, the same way it does fans.

[gm99]

gm99 is, lamely, going to bring up that Bottas is managed by a company Hakkinen co-owns?

When he's talking about Gasly and RB, it's got nothing to do with his management company. He's just telling you how F1 teams operate.

Trying to diminish Hakkinen puts you at the latter point of your signature.

If it's my signature you're talking about, it has got nothing to do with Häkkinen winning the F1 championship on that day, but rather the death of CART racer Greg Moore on the same day, to whom my nickname is a tribute also. In fact, I was actually rooting for Mika to win the title earlier that day, as I much preferred him as a person to Schumacher.

So I'm not trying to diminish Häkkinen's achievements at all, nor his views on F1. I'm only questioning his objectivity with regard to Bottas, whom he known and mentored since his teen days and now manages.