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  1. #11
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    But speaking of the 2019 season, I'm linking this podcast of Mika Hakkinen's summary of the season.

    https://soundcloud.com/unibetfinland...on-2019-review

    Now, Mika is an outstanding media figure in F1. Whether it's these unibet series of podcasts, his Beyond The Grid interview, or whatever else, he is a terrific analyst.

    There's no figure in motorsport that gives a great an insight into what goes on in F1/motorsport, and what drivers of his calibre go through.

    In regards to N Jones' line about Bottas never being Hamilton's equal (Presumably as a talent and in performance?) and TBK's line about that it's clear "that it is very unlikely Bottas will ever be able to match Hamilton". Well, Hakkinene gives an insight into why this is the case.

    If you listen to 13:30 to 15:30, you'll hear Hakkinen's opinion of Hamilton's title win. If you listen from 24:30 to 28:20, you'll hear his insight into what Gasly has to deal with and what contributed to his lack of performance at RB, particularly when you compare it to his performances at TR. This is relevant because Bottas is faced with the same situation, but isn't affected as much (Although it may give an insight into Bottas 2018 season?)

    If we go back to the race thread, I'm sure there'll be numerous occasions when posters laud Hamilton and how he makes it look so "easy". Well, Hakkinen tells you why.

    The best part for me about it is that none of the hardened Hamilton fans can dispute what Hakkinen says. He's lived through everything as a driver, and knows what's going on within MB, as he's a part of Bottas' team, and the race team probably tells him anyway with the clout he's got.

    Another best part about what Hakkinen says is that Hamilton fans can't be spiteful towards him because Hakkinen isn't begrudging or spiteful about the situation at all.

    Hopefully some of you will listen to the parts I've highlighted, if not all of it, before I go on. All I'll say is that he does put a different context into driving the "same" car, and that it doesn't necessarily mean that it's an equal situation.

    Enjoy.
    Last edited by journeyman racer; 26th December 2019 at 06:03.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by journeyman racer View Post
    But speaking of the 2019 season, I'm linking this podcast of Mika Hakkinen's summary of the season.

    https://soundcloud.com/unibetfinland...on-2019-review

    Now, Mika is an outstanding media figure in F1. Whether it's these unibet series of podcasts, his Beyond The Grid interview, or whatever else, he is a terrific analyst.

    There's no figure in motorsport that gives a great an insight into what goes on in F1/motorsport, and what drivers of his calibre go through.

    In regards to N Jones' line about Bottas never being Hamilton's equal (Presumably as a talent and in performance?) and TBK's line about that it's clear "that it is very unlikely Bottas will ever be able to match Hamilton". Well, Hakkinene gives an insight into why this is the case.

    If you listen to 13:30 to 15:30, you'll hear Hakkinen's opinion of Hamilton's title win. If you listen from 24:30 to 28:20, you'll hear his insight into what Gasly has to deal with and what contributed to his lack of performance at RB, particularly when you compare it to his performances at TR. This is relevant because Bottas is faced with the same situation, but isn't affected as much (Although it may give an insight into Bottas 2018 season?)

    If we go back to the race thread, I'm sure there'll be numerous occasions when posters laud Hamilton and how he makes it look so "easy". Well, Hakkinen tells you why.

    The best part for me about it is that none of the hardened Hamilton fans can dispute what Hakkinen says. He's lived through everything as a driver, and knows what's going on within MB, as he's a part of Bottas' team, and the race team probably tells him anyway with the clout he's got.

    Another best part about what Hakkinen says is that Hamilton fans can't be spiteful towards him because Hakkinen isn't begrudging or spiteful about the situation at all.

    Hopefully some of you will listen to the parts I've highlighted, if not all of it, before I go on. All I'll say is that he does put a different context into driving the "same" car, and that it doesn't necessarily mean that it's an equal situation.

    Enjoy.
    Merry Christmas Journeyman. Hope the turkey was delicious :-).

    Unfortunately, l disagree with Mika on Mercedes building their car exclusively to suit Hamilton. If that was the case, Hamilton would have won Melbourne 2019 and Bottas would have struggled to beat him. Instead Bottas turned up and won that race with Hamilton struggling to get his car setup to suit himself. Hamilton struggled most of the season to get the car setup to his liking because Mercedes being a fair team tried to find a compromise design to suit both their driver's style of driving which meant both drivers struggled to find a perfect sweet spot for their setup most of the time. Hence, they rarely performed at their most comfortable setup at the same time at the same race. Even with these compromises, the car remained very fast and good enough to challenge the very tip of the front of the grid.

    When Hamilton won a race and said the car was brilliant, Valterrie would say he struggled with aspects of the car, and vice- versa.

    The theory does not hold up either when you take Ferrari into consideration. Leclerc who has never driven a Ferrari for a full season comes into Ferrari this season and thrashes the four times world champion who has been in that car for three seasons. This hypothesis would suggest that Ferrari built their 2019 car to suit Vettel who was their number one driver but fails to explain how Leclerc was able to overcome under these conditions. This view would suggest that Vettel is crap which is rubbish for a start. The other would suggest that maybe Leclerc have the same driving style or similar to Vettel's driving style, thus was able to get use to the car quicker, which is possible but unlikely.

    Besides, one could see that Hakkinenn struggled to be complimentary of Hamilton's accomplishments. That is understandable because Hamilton has accomplished three times more than he was able to accomplish.

    Whatever the case, it is an unacceptable suggestion to imply that Mercedes disadvantaged Bottas to assist Hamilton to triumph. Such suggestion attempts to tarnish the Mercedes team for favoritisim; which is rubbish. And tries to undermine the accomplishments of Hamilton as a six times world champion; that suggestion is cheap and rubbish too.

    The obvious facts are that Bottas was not consistently fast for whatever reason. I doubt it is mostly to do with the car, because the car was good enough for him to be at least one tenths behind Hamilton but mostly Bottas tends to fade backwards in most races. So l think Bottas has personal issues that he needs to address, if he wants to beat Hamilton. He has access to a championship winning car, hence to blame the championship car for not performing is just simply rubbish.

    With respect to Redbull, l would tend to agree that the Redbull was designed to suit Verstapenn's driving style. Redbull tend to back the driver with the highest prospect of winning the drivers chasmionship. They did it for Vettel at the expense of Webber and to some extent Ricciado. It was always going to be hard for any driver that partner Verstapenn at Redbull. Which is why Albon has impressed so much. And l agree that Gasly faltered because he could not get the car be setup the way he likes it.

    This season would give Bottas a good boost going into 2020. I expect him to be more confident and to have improved further. But if anyone is talking about Hamilton, it is because he is the the very best that F1 has to offer at the moment. He is the benchmark by which every driver on the grid is measured. And he is the most successfull racing driver in the pinacle of motorsport at the moment. And you must respect that.
    Last edited by Nitrodaze; 26th December 2019 at 21:56.
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  3. #13
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    Bro, if you actually did listen to the podcast. You have to understand that you're disputing with someone who knows the industry of F1 intimately. He has a greater range of experience than what ever guys like Hamilton and Schumacher do.

    This as opposed to you, whose interest is comparatively superficial. You can write as much as you like, you don't have the clout he does. If you express a point of view of F1 operations that is the opposite of Hakkinen's, you have to understand that yours is the inaccurate, or incorrect, view.

    It's best that you accept his point of view as fact. Understand what he's saying, and recognise that he has no bitterness. Mika is a kind spirit, bro. He just wants to give the fans actual insights into what is going on.

    You cannot suggest that RB make a car to suit Verstappen, and that MB don't do the same for Hamilton. The evidence is compelling. Some teams have been doing this for decades. Would you like to know why Bottas was burning up his tyres when Hamilton wasn't? Hakkinen indirectly tells you why.

    If you want to sound as silly as TBK, go ahead. But you owe to yourself to not to.

  4. #14
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    That a poster would state that another viewpoint of a former driver is the only viewpoint that can be taken as accurate and every other viewpoint is wrong, is a glaring indication as to the limited intelligence of the poster. I guess it explains a lot of this posters behaviour over the years. He becomes identified and boxes himself into a certain position and can no longer see anything from coordinates outside that box. A big insight we have now into this individual.

    Mika is simply expressing a view point based on his observations (just like all of us are) and it cannot be taken as fact. In the podcast he states you can see the car looks easy for him, you can see this or that. It is all simple observations which can either be correct or incorrect.

    On the other hand, I'll take the word of Bottas and Hamilton whom actually work within the team and know what they are talking about. At the end of the 2017 season Bottas stated that he had not much influence on the design of the 2017 because he joined so late, but that would not be the case for 2018, he said that he provide feedback to engineers to influence the design more to his liking. Of course, it's always a balance between two drivers. Given that Hamilton has been with Mercedes since 2013 it only stands to reason that some fundamental historical design decisions carried over from year to year may favour Lewis. This is not an excuse for Bottas I'm afraid, he has had 3 years now to adapt and stamp his influence on the design of the car and has been provided every opportunity to do so, including giving him one of Hamilton's best engineers. If that isn't enough for him then I'm afraid nothing will be.

    Take Leclerc moving to Ferrari and beating Vettel this year, how did that happen if fundamental car design decisions tailored to a driver directly influence their speed. It's up to the other driver to adapt to the situation and Leclerc did it in under half a season, albeit against a driver whom is far inferior to Bottas, hasn't managed it in 3 years.

    I'll also refer to Bottas after last years Chinese Grand Prix where he said that him and Hamilton usually chose pretty similar setups as their driving style wasn't miles apart. Hamilton has also said the same on a number of occasions.

    But hey, Hakkinen knows better, right? LOL!
    Last edited by The Black Knight; 26th December 2019 at 18:06.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by journeyman racer View Post
    Bro, if you actually did listen to the podcast. You have to understand that you're disputing with someone who knows the industry of F1 intimately. He has a greater range of experience than what ever guys like Hamilton and Schumacher do.

    This as opposed to you, whose interest is comparatively superficial. You can write as much as you like, you don't have the clout he does. If you express a point of view of F1 operations that is the opposite of Hakkinen's, you have to understand that yours is the inaccurate, or incorrect, view.

    It's best that you accept his point of view as fact. Understand what he's saying, and recognise that he has no bitterness. Mika is a kind spirit, bro. He just wants to give the fans actual insights into what is going on.

    You cannot suggest that RB make a car to suit Verstappen, and that MB don't do the same for Hamilton. The evidence is compelling. Some teams have been doing this for decades. Would you like to know why Bottas was burning up his tyres when Hamilton wasn't? Hakkinen indirectly tells you why.

    If you want to sound as silly as TBK, go ahead. But you owe to yourself to not to.
    Don't get me wrong, l have a lot of respect for Mika Hakkinenn. He is a two times F1 driver world champion after all. He is one of three men to have beaten the great Michael Schumacher and one of two to beat him twice to F1 world championship titles. That is one of the highest accalade that any driver can claim in F1.

    That said, he has his opinion. I bet a million bucks that if you randomly pick anyone from the Mercedes team or Ferrari Team or even the Redbull team, they would most likely have a different view on some of the things that he has said.

    Unfortunately, opinion is subjective. Like noses, everyone has one.

    Hence it is disappointing that you would surrender yours and blindly take whatever view that is thrusted at you.

    The truth about Bottas is, he has been in the Mercedes for three seasons now and has not yet reached the level of performance of Rosberg. Considering his first two seasons were flops, 2019 was a massive improvement. But even so, he was well short of the Rosberg threshold.
    Last edited by Nitrodaze; 26th December 2019 at 17:29.
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  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitrodaze View Post
    Don't get me wrong, l have a lot of respect for Mika Hakkinenn. He is a two times F1 driver world champion after all. He is one of three men to have beaten the great Michael Schumacher and one of two to beat him twice to F1 world championship titles. That is one of the highest accalade that any driver can claim in F1.

    That said, he has his opinion. I bet a million bucks that if you randomly pick anyone from the Mercedes team or Ferrari Team or even the Redbull team, they would most likely have a different view on some of the things that he has said.

    Unfortunately, opinion is subjective. Like noses, everyone has one.

    Hence it is disappointing that you would surrender yours and blindly take whatever view that is thrusted at you.

    The truth about Bottas is, he has been in the Mercedes for three seasons now and has not yet reached the level of performance of Rosberg. Considering his first two seasons were flops, 2019 was a massive improvement. But even so, he was well short of the Rosberg threshold.
    Spot on. Not to mention that, also being Finnish, Mika’s opinions can hardly be counted as likely being entirely unbiased.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Black Knight View Post
    Spot on. Not to mention that, also being Finnish, Mika’s opinions can hardly be counted as likely being entirely unbiased.
    Häkkinen is also a partner in Aces Management, which counts among its clients one Valtteri Bottas...
    Oct. 31, 1999 - one of the blackest days in motorsports.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Black Knight View Post
    Spot on. Not to mention that, also being Finnish, Mika’s opinions can hardly be counted as likely being entirely unbiased.
    Mika was asked which two drivers on the current grid would choose to drive for his team if he owned one. His reply; Bottas and Leclerc. Now honestly, which two would you pick if you were in the same position of team boss?

    If l was a team boss of a F1 racing team with the cash to employ any driver on the grid, l am very certain that Bottas would not be on my radar. I would most probably pick Verstapenn and Leclerc because they are the best of the next generation of drivers.
    Last edited by Nitrodaze; 27th December 2019 at 01:16.
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  9. #19
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    Nope, the 3 of you have demonstrated a lack of being able to decipher when he's telling as it is, and when he's milking it.

    So, in a 1 hour conversation, some of you pick out one light hearted point about which two driver he'd pick to drive. So what if he'd pick Bottas and that was "biased"? It doesn't denigrate all the other stuff he's said.

    What you're not seeing is the stuff that's in the blind spot. For someone in Mika's position, he's more than capable of changing the PR situation for Bottas for the better, and worse for MB. Someone in his position can go to the media and blow up about all the biases against Bottas. "Hamilton always gets this, Bottas never gets that, etc..." And no one would be able to dispute him.

    He can make it extremely difficult for MB in a PR sense, and tap into any angst fans have towards Hamilton, with some few choice statements. But you never hear about him in the press talking, he's never quoted. It cos he knows what the F1 industry is, and he doesn't play games. The "biases" Hamilton gets Mika knows he probably got himself during his career. So he's not resentful or cynical when Bottas is copping it, unlike how you/we are capable of.

    You can't talk about bias when Mika is just giving an insight into the natural process of F1/racing teams. He could be talking about the Honda MotoGP team. They don't change anything for the second rider. Marquez wins, and you should ride like him to get the results. It's the same at MB.

    Consider that the next time Hamilton wins and Bottas is second, 10+secs behind with his tyres burnt to a crisp, where none of you knew Hamilton could look after his tyres like he had in the previous 12 seasons of F1.

    Regarding Gasly, Hakkinen brought up about there being no time and no mercy in F1? That's true and none of you can argue against it, as you're quick to rip into any driver that doesn't meet "your" standards.

    Pointing out that Hakkinen is Finnish and that his company manages Bottas. When you consider all the criticisms Bottas has copped, do you think Hakkinen doesn't know what he could do to offset the criticism from a PR battle?

    There's nothing none of you can argue against Mika. He has clout and knowledge none of you have. He's not as lame as what any of you are. He's literally experienced everything in F1, while you guys are hanging onto your prejudices.

    From my pov, I got triggered internally when Ricciardo wasn't one of the drivers he picked. But I don't use that as evidence to diminish everything he says.

    Mika's opinion>Your opinion.
    Last edited by journeyman racer; 27th December 2019 at 00:53.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitrodaze View Post
    Don't get me wrong, l have a lot of respect for Mika Hakkinenn.
    I don't think you do.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nitrodaze View Post
    He is a two times F1 driver world champion after all. He is one of three men to have beaten the great Michael Schumacher and one of two to beat him twice to F1 world championship titles. That is one of the highest accalade that any driver can claim in F1.
    I don't like this opinion of yours. Schumacher is this great character that is the barometer where all drivers are judged by. A heroic character like in the movies. From Hakkinen's pov, Schumacher is just another guy, who he knows he can beat in an equal situation. You'd recognise this from his Beyond The Grid interview.

    Hakkinen points out that they were the best drivers in F3 in 1990. But he was better still, as he flogged him in a one-off round in the German championship.

    The following year, they both enter F1. Hakkinen with the small, under funded Lotus team. Jordan being a one off drive, Schumacher effectively started out in a race winning team.

    Hakkinen produces great results at Lotus, but is overshadowed by Schumacher drivinging a better car, producing results that include winning a race.

    1993 Portuguese GP. Having not raced all year, this race is notable for Hakkinen outqualifying Senna first time out. What's not recognised is that Hakkinen outqualified Schumacher by a second. 2-1 to Hakkinen in qualifying that year.

    By the 1995-96 off season. Schumacher gets the best of everything, wins 2 championships 25+wins, and becomes this legendary figure. Hakkinen had to battle with Peugeot and MB grenades. Hakkinen then had to deal with a serious head injury.

    Both beat Brundle and Herbert as team mates.

    When he gets a more even situation in F1 to Schumacher, he wins the championship, and was ahead when Schumacher broke his leg at Silverstone.

    For you, beating Schumacher to an F1 title is the highest accolade a driver can claim in F1. For Hakkinen, beating Schumacher is like Rickard Rydell beating Tim Harvey at Volvo in the 1995 BTCC.

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