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Thread: WRC future

  1. #801
    Senior Member Mirek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by denkimi View Post
    In the end it doesn't really matter what's under the hood. The people who know usually care about rallying, and those who don't know can be satisfied by telling them whatever they want to hear.
    You probably never watched an electric race yourself, right? Otherwise you would know that it's boring as hell. From my own experience you can sleep just next to the track and not only because it's quiet but also because the behavior of electric cars is so much more boring that it hurts (the torque vectoring, traction, torque curve, everything is way too ideal to give any excitement; in simple words the cars not only sound lazy but they also look lazy even though they are not).
    Stupid is as stupid does. Forrest Gump

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mirek View Post
    (the torque vectoring, traction, torque curve, everything is way too ideal to give any excitement; in simple words the cars not only sound lazy but they also look lazy even though they are not).
    Similar problem with hybrid F1. 1000BHP but they look pretty easy to drive.

    I’m not sure this would apply to a proper gravel rally stage though?

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    Senior Member skarderud's Avatar
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    Heard something about Subaru and Mitsubishi is going back to WRC from 22/23, but is it anything in it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mirek View Post
    You probably never watched an electric race yourself, right? Otherwise you would know that it's boring as hell. From my own experience you can sleep just next to the track and not only because it's quiet but also because the behavior of electric cars is so much more boring that it hurts (the torque vectoring, traction, torque curve, everything is way too ideal to give any excitement; in simple words the cars not only sound lazy but they also look lazy even though they are not).
    I never watched a WRC-level rally with an electric car.... probably cause there hasn't been one.
    How "lazy" behavior of the car will be depends a lot on what the rules are for everything. Still can't see how it can't be exciting jumping sideways at 150 kph on fast gravel rally. Neither can I see how it is going to be quiet on gravel.

    On tarmac it depends much more on the rules, but say a 2006 WRC with 3 active diffs on smooth tarmac in Spain isn't exactly massive excitement either. As to the sound, tires are by far the loudest sound coming from an R5 car doing over 90 kph.

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    Senior Member Rally Power's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mknight View Post
    As to the sound, tires are by far the loudest sound coming from an R5 car doing over 90 kph.
    Actually you can only notice R5's tires noise on the slow braking and sliding zones. Anyway, I'm always puzzled to see fans supporting full EV's in the WRC, or any other top motorsport series, when those still faill to get a 3% share in the car world market.
    Rally addict since 1982

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rally Power View Post
    Actually you can only notice R5's tires noise on the slow braking and sliding zones. Anyway, I'm always puzzled to see fans supporting full EV's in the WRC, or any other top motorsport series, when those still faill to get a 3% share in the car world market.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BG0K...ju-OiQ&index=2

    Most of the sound in that vid is from tires (not sliding). Anyway that is tarmac, on fast gravel you only hear the gravel sounds. Remember that lack of sound is nothing new, N4 Evos were similar.

    EVs (and hybrids) is what is promoted by manufacturers in Europe. (WRC is very much European series, so much teams are even mandated by the rules to be based in Europe).
    If you want manufacturers in the sport it helps to have a vague resemblance to what they are trying to sell. This has historically been the main thing setting rallying appart from things like F1.

    Sure lately it's more about brand building, but building a brand on petrol while trying to promote EV/hybrid is difficult.
    Last edited by mknight; 25th October 2020 at 12:28.

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    Senior Member Rally Power's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mknight View Post
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BG0K...ju-OiQ&index=2
    Most of the sound in that vid is from tires (not sliding). Anyway that is tarmac, on fast gravel you only hear the gravel sounds. Remember that lack of sound is nothing new, N4 Evos were similar.
    EVs (and hybrids) is what is promoted by manufacturers in Europe. (WRC is very much European series, so much teams are even mandated by the rules to be based in Europe).
    If you want manufacturers in the sport it helps to have a vague resemblance to what they are trying to sell. This has historically been the main thing setting rallying appart from things like F1.
    Sure lately it's more about brand building, but building a brand on petrol while trying to promote EV/hybrid is difficult.
    Mate, I don't need to see videos as I've watched R5's on more than a dozen tarmac rallys since 2014 (and even more on gravel, btw).

    On the WRC future, all manus (apart VW) agreed on having Hybrids (using a main ICEngine) as the next step, so there's no reason to defend full EV's use at this point.
    Rally addict since 1982

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    Senior Member Sulland's Avatar
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    The only motorsport on top level where fully electric, with todays battery tech can make a show is rallycross.

    Formula-e is boring, and the same in MotoGp with their version.

    Hybrid is a dead end, dont spend money develop it in rally. Maybe Hydrogen could work, but that is still not used by many manufacturers.

    So petrol is still the only logical way for rally.
    But todays top cars are to expensive, and fancy.

    i feel we are at a Group B moment in time, but before the accident.
    Take it down a notch, and use Rally2 as new top class.
    Maybe the Joker system need to be adjusted a bit, so cost do not spiral out of control. Max price need to be kept.

    it could bring more manus in, when cost is not that high, and they can sell cars to privateers.
    Number of top class cars will explode, in most WRC rounds, since there are so many cars out there, and they can now be bought for less than 100 00€ second hand.
    we can again get local boys that can copete with the grown ups, and bring back more dimensions to the championship than the 8-10 cars we have today.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sulland View Post
    The only motorsport on top level where fully electric, with todays battery tech can make a show is rallycross.

    Formula-e is boring, and the same in MotoGp with their version.

    Hybrid is a dead end, dont spend money develop it in rally. Maybe Hydrogen could work, but that is still not used by many manufacturers.

    So petrol is still the only logical way for rally.
    But todays top cars are to expensive, and fancy.

    i feel we are at a Group B moment in time, but before the accident.
    Take it down a notch, and use Rally2 as new top class.
    Maybe the Joker system need to be adjusted a bit, so cost do not spiral out of control. Max price need to be kept.

    it could bring more manus in, when cost is not that high, and they can sell cars to privateers.
    Number of top class cars will explode, in most WRC rounds, since there are so many cars out there, and they can now be bought for less than 100 00€ second hand.
    we can again get local boys that can copete with the grown ups, and bring back more dimensions to the championship than the 8-10 cars we have today.
    Can't agree more. And remember, even without the terrible corsica accident, the future of Gp.B was bleak - Everyone apart from Peugeot and Lancia would have dropped out because of too high costs / too high a barrier to entry for newcomers. This is why Gp.S was on the wings, simpler, cheaper formula. It's even better now as you point out because there is such a base of R5 cars out there ...

  14. #810
    Senior Member AnttiL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sulland View Post

    Hybrid is a dead end, dont spend money develop it in rally.
    Can you give more arguments for this?

    For me EV is the long distance future of WRC (in 10 years), and hybrid is a good bridge towards that. We need manufacturers to fund high level WRC, and having the word "hybrid" in the car model name might be crucial.

    Going to Rally2 as the main class would be going backwards in technology, and going towards something like ERC where the top drivers must fund their own programs. It could be inevitable, but I wouldn't plan on doing it.
    Last edited by AnttiL; 25th October 2020 at 20:49.

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