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Thread: WRC future

  1. #701
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    Seen both generations of cars plenty of times on all surfaces... Both have their positives and negatives. The previous 1.6T generation was amazing when it came, thanks to the mechanical diffs, everyone remembering the last generation of 2L WRC cars knows how boring these were, especially on tarmac... The first 1.6T were very accessible to privateers, especially in the beginning. In some events there were 20 (or more) WRC cars, those times are gone. Having guys like Solberg(s), Ostberg, Kubica, Novikov, PG Andersson, Bouffier, Rantanen etc mixing up with the field was great, even if it were some one-shots. Current generation has proved too expensive for that... Also seeing cars completely sideways 30-40 meters before a corner was a far more common sight in that generation than with the current one. The current generation however is a completely different world, they are far faster, not only are the engines far more powerful, the cornering speed is just unbelievable. Seeing them in Poland, Finland, Sweden and faster sections in Wales was simply stunning.

    I think that the next generation, combining the powerful engines, aero and putting the step back to mechanical diffs, will be very, very exciting to see! The fact that suspension travel will be limited will only make things more exciting to see...

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  3. #702
    Senior Member Rally Power's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tommeke_B View Post
    Seen both generations of cars plenty of times on all surfaces... Both have their positives and negatives. The previous 1.6T generation was amazing when it came, thanks to the mechanical diffs, everyone remembering the last generation of 2L WRC cars knows how boring these were, especially on tarmac... The first 1.6T were very accessible to privateers, especially in the beginning. In some events there were 20 (or more) WRC cars, those times are gone. Having guys like Solberg(s), Ostberg, Kubica, Novikov, PG Andersson, Bouffier, Rantanen etc mixing up with the field was great, even if it were some one-shots. Current generation has proved too expensive for that... Also seeing cars completely sideways 30-40 meters before a corner was a far more common sight in that generation than with the current one. The current generation however is a completely different world, they are far faster, not only are the engines far more powerful, the cornering speed is just unbelievable. Seeing them in Poland, Finland, Sweden and faster sections in Wales was simply stunning.

    I think that the next generation, combining the powerful engines, aero and putting the step back to mechanical diffs, will be very, very exciting to see! The fact that suspension travel will be limited will only make things more exciting to see...
    Agree with all your post, apart the last sentence; current spec suspensions make the cars way more effective and even safer.
    Rally addict since 1982

  4. #703
    Senior Member er88's Avatar
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    Eddie you're chatting pish. If you've ever been in a real forest stage to watch these cars i find it impossible for any rally fan to claim they aren't a big step up and hugely spectacular. It's just weird to claim otherwise.

    History being re-written on here - these cars have been FANTASTIC for the WRC. All events seem to be increasing in spectator numbers since the 17 regs were introduced, the championship battles have been some of most interesting ever - compared with what he had in the previous 15yrs. The TV viewers have increased, WRC+ has taken watching a rally to all new heights..., and there's a big demand for new countries trying to join an already full calendar.

    Manufacturers will always come and go - no matter what regs you have. That's part and parcel of motorsport. Ofcourse Hybrid could've come earlier..., but if Hyundai leave it might also have something to do with one of the biggest global pandemics and the consequences of that..., rather than new/old car regulations.

    VW unexpectedly pulled out because of diesel-gate, Citroen might have gone in a few years anyway (although pushed for hybrid), but they spat their dummy out after Ogier left them and constant struggles with poor car development.

    Only way to get the WRC full of new manufacturers is to go electric. Until then the sport will probably always fluctuate between 2/3/4 manufacturers.

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  6. #704
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    Eddie... I'm going to call that you have never seen a 2017 car in a proper gravel / forest stage, or if you have, then you really know sweet FA about the sport you talk a lot about.

    As for the future, we really need some out of the box thinking now, because the 2022 regs don't seem to have knitted the teams together like they should have done and certainly haven't brought any new manufacturers in.
    Is electric the way forward? Probably, but I have this worrying feeling that to save face, the FIA will still press on with hybrid and if it's a five year change cycle, then really, how many manufacturers are going to be pushing hybrids in 2027?
    I hate feeling so negative about the future of this sport, but it's like we're sleep walking straight into a championship that won't serve any purpose to the teams it needs to attract.

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    Senior Member Rally Power's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by T16 View Post
    As for the future, we really need some out of the box thinking now, because the 2022 regs don't seem to have knitted the teams together like they should have done and certainly haven't brought any new manufacturers in.
    Is electric the way forward? Probably, but I have this worrying feeling that to save face, the FIA will still press on with hybrid and if it's a five year change cycle, then really, how many manufacturers are going to be pushing hybrids in 2027?
    I hate feeling so negative about the future of this sport, but it's like we're sleep walking straight into a championship that won't serve any purpose to the teams it needs to attract.
    Let’s stay calm, avoiding to get ‘electric hysteria’. All major motorsport series are using (and will continue to use) Hybrids and unless the FIA decide to ruin 50 years of world rally heritage, turning the WRC into a Mickey Mouse competition (with endless loops on 5km stages), there’s no way this sport can use full EV’s any time soon.

    If the existing agreement on the 2022 rules is broken (the current 3 teams were in favor of a high tech control hybrid system and the FIA launched a bid accordingly), there’s an easy way to solve the problem: the FIA creates a mild hybrid R5+ top category and makes a deal to compensate Compact Dynamics, the company that won the hybrid system bid.

    There’s absolutely no need to reinvent the sport or turn it into a joke.
    Rally addict since 1982

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  10. #706
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rally Power View Post
    Let’s stay calm, avoiding to get ‘electric hysteria’. All major motorsport series are using (and will continue to use) Hybrids and unless the FIA decide to ruin 50 years of world rally heritage, turning the WRC into a Mickey Mouse competition (with endless loops on 5km stages), there’s no way this sport can use full EV’s any time soon.

    If the existing agreement on the 2022 rules is broken (the current 3 teams were in favor of a high tech control hybrid system and the FIA launched a bid accordingly), there’s an easy way to solve the problem: the FIA creates a mild hybrid R5+ top category and makes a deal to compensate Compact Dynamics, the company that won the hybrid system bid.

    There’s absolutely no need to reinvent the sport or turn it into a joke.
    Look, I don't want it to go electric, but if it means survival, then fair enough.
    Regarding the FIA changing 50 years of heritage; It won't be them that decides, they will inevitably follow what the manufacturers want in terms of a marketing vessel. If that is electric, the FIA will have to go this way and just find a way around the potential issues.
    It will be a while off yet though and I agree that a U-turn and re-route to R5+ seems potentially like a solution, but I just can't help think that the next 12 months are going to expose a lot of weaknesses in the structure of the sport at this level.
    Last edited by T16; 9th October 2020 at 18:50.

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  12. #707
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rally Power View Post
    All major motorsport series are using (and will continue to use) Hybrids and unless the FIA decide to ruin 50 years of world rally heritage, turning the WRC into a Mickey Mouse competition (with endless loops on 5km stages), there’s no way this sport can use full EV’s any time soon.
    I was recently thinking about it, and actually they could. It could perhaps even be one of the easiest motorsports to do it.

    If they were to provide quick charging zones before each stage, and possibly before every long liaison, they could go full electric.

    They would have to adapt the timing and maybe hire some generators, but that would solve the short range problem.

    I don't like it, i don't want it, but it should be possible.

  13. #708
    Senior Member Rally Power's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by T16 View Post
    Look, I don't want it to go electric, but if it means survival, then fair enough.
    Regarding the FIA changing 50 years of heritage; It won't be them that decides, they will inevitably follow what the manufacturers want in terms of a marketing vessel. If that is electric, the FIA will have to go this way and just find a way around the potential issues.
    Who’s saying that manus want Rally to go full electric? Apart VW (that turn green from night to day after the Dieselgate), no manu is stupid enough to push for a tech that’s not ready to serve rally main marketing purpose: proving that average looking cars can surpass the most extreme challenges on daily roads.

    Besides, apart some populist politicians, who can assure that Hybrids will end on a near future? Did you know that many of those German manus that jumped into FE to save their faces are now reconsidering to get into the 2022/23 WEC-LM/IMSA Hybrid formula (LMDh)? And that Hyundai, through their American arm, is being pushed to also get into LMDh? https://racer.com/2020/09/18/imsa-re...l-regulations/


    Quote Originally Posted by denkimi View Post
    If they were to provide quick charging zones before each stage, and possibly before every long liaison, they could go full electric.
    They would have to adapt the timing and maybe hire some generators, but that would solve the short range problem.
    That's a big if and besides the autonomy issues there are also safety questions and, most of all, reliability founded doubts, considering Rally extreme challenges. Again, unless we turn this sport into a Mickey Mouse competition, full EV’s aren’t ready for it.
    Rally addict since 1982

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  15. #709
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rally Power View Post
    Who’s saying that manus want Rally to go full electric? Apart VW (that turn green from night to day after the Dieselgate), no manu is stupid enough to push for a tech that’s not ready to serve rally main marketing purpose: proving that average looking cars can surpass the most extreme challenges on daily roads.

    Besides, apart some populist politicians, who can assure that Hybrids will end on a near future? Did you know that many of those German manus that jumped into FE to save their faces are now reconsidering to get into the 2022/23 WEC-LM/IMSA Hybrid formula (LMDh)? And that Hyundai, through their American arm, is being pushed to also get into LMDh? https://racer.com/2020/09/18/imsa-re...l-regulations/




    That's a big if and besides the autonomy issues there are also safety questions and, most of all, reliability founded doubts, considering Rally extreme challenges. Again, unless we turn this sport into a Mickey Mouse competition, full EV’s aren’t ready for it.
    I’m not saying the manufacturers are saying the want to go electric.
    I said you claiming the FIA make the decision is inaccurate. They will ultimately serve the demands of the manufacturer.

  16. #710
    Senior Member AnttiL's Avatar
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    https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/hyund...-wrc-from-2023

    Hyundai possibly quitting rallying at the end of 2021

    EDIT: end of 2021, not 2022
    Last edited by AnttiL; 19th October 2020 at 09:46.

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