WRC future

[Mirek]

I'm probably biased bur for me the best superspecial-sorf-of is Barum Rally city stage.

[AndyRAC]

Listening to Julian Porter talking glowingly about having a few more rallies like Rally Monza was depressing. Rally Monza was a good idea under the circumstances of this year/Covid, which ended up being made much better by unplannable weather intervention. If Porter is as usually on message as anyone on WRC+, the official mouth piece of WRC Promoter, I fear this is the direction the WRC wishes to go. As if that is a surprise. We've already lost so many of the classic rallies. Rallies are getting shorter still. Now we're aspirationally looking at what would once have been considered a joke, WRC rounds becoming glorified single venue events... How low can the WRC go? Is anybody interested in protecting the integrity of the WRC or has that ship long sailed?

I think you've already answered the question. It can go lower, and they're not interested; or if they are, they're doing a bad job of showing it. About 20 years ago there was an article in either Autosport/MNews or one of the Rally magazines (which no longer exist). And it laid out what it takes to host a WRC event; I think the main requirement nowadays is a big bag of £$£$£$£$

If you compare to other global motorsport series, then the WRC has changed the most, and by a lot. Over the last 10-15-20+ years:

F1 is still basically the same; qualifying is now a 1 day event, which has been tweaked a few times. No more 'warm up' on race day, followed by an approx 90 mins race, as then.

MotoGP - Rebranded in early 2000, keeping the 3 classes with MotoGP (formerly 500cc) the headline act. Again qualifying has been tweaked, but Sunday see the main race still at approx 45 mins.
(The Dutch TT at Assen, traditionally held on the Saturday has only recently moved to Sunday)

WRC - I won't go into details, but it's basically a different sport from 20-25 year ago.

I was open minded about Rally Monza, but I didn't think it was great; the circuit stages were far too 'gimmicky' and stop/start with too many chicanes, etc I could just about accept that type of 'one off' event if the 'classic' events were allowed to return to their proper format; running Monte from Tuesday - Friday night, for example. And there's no chance of that......well not in the WRC.

I can see a 'WRC Rallysprint' series using various race circuits, and the outlying roads to be used for events, now that could work; imagine an event at the Nordschleife? - but as part of the supposed pinnacle of rallysport? Not for me.

[AnttiL]

WRC - I won't go into details, but it's basically a different sport from 20-25 year ago. .

No, the basic principles have remained unchanged from the 60's. The biggest change is that you can now restart in the rally (since early 00's) and you can get extra points from the power stage (since 2011). Yes, the events have become shorter, you don't get to service between every stage, you don't drive overnight, but the sport hasn't changed that much. In fact, the biggest change for rallying as a sport occurred in the early 60's (?) when special stages took over other driving tests, and the events weren't consisting anymore mostly of long road sections.

I wouldn't be worried about the likes of Monza. It's perfect for the COVID-era because you can control the spectators or run it easily with no spectators, but once we go to the normal, we should go back to normal rallies with normal stages. However, the drivers and teams have been dangerously positive about the shortened itineraries of the rallies...

Also, I could see some synergy and benefits at arranging the service park at a place like Monza, where you can get the VIP spectators and arrange a show stage and other program for them there with easy access, but the championships should be decided on proper roads and super special should only make up a small amount of a rally's route.

[AnttiL]

I don't understand how people see Monza resembling rallycross. I mean, in rallycross you drive against other cars on the same track, it's a different type of sport to driving against the clock. Similarly, the Monza stages were mostly very narrow and the service roads bumpy, whereas rallycross is driven on wide and smooth, albeit twisty circuits.

[AnttiL]

What could be done imo is to wastly improve the super specials using the ideas at Monza. Great Orme is in a way already an SSS of sorts. So 1-2 longer "superspecials" per rally would be quite fine for me. If the service park is at a circuit it can be set around it. So much better than superspecials with 3 donuts and 2 corners...

What I liked about the Monza stages was that there was no donuts, ramp jumps, loops or same segments driven in many directions within one stage. Also the varying surfaces made it tricky, especially on tarmac tyres and suspension.

I agree that there's a lot to improve in most super specials of the season, but then again, the most important thing is to just get the rally cars where there are people, and the stage doesn't matter so much.

I've always loved Harju as a super special, it has some proper drivable corners, a long tradition, and no artificial elements. I also liked very much the super special in Estonia. I'm fond of street stages when they use the actual natural corners of the street, not the barriers and donuts they usually put there. Twin-car rallycross stages are also usually decent in driving terms, because you can get proper drivable corners and long slides going on.

[mknight]

However, the drivers and teams have been dangerously positive about the shortened itineraries of the rallies...

That's also the main worry for me, much more than having a bit more SSS-like stages.

We went from events with 300-320 km over 3 or 4 days to suddenly having events with 220 km over 2.... and everyone thinks it's "great".

Result is that one small issue/problem and you have no chance to ever catch up, especially on events with small gaps like Estonia/Finland.

[AnttiL]

We went from events with 300-320 km over 3 or 4 days to suddenly having events with 220 km over 2.... and everyone thinks it's "great".

Well, all rallies this year had at least 3 days, even Estonia who had only SSS1 on Friday (Turkey had two real stages).

Also, still in 2018 the maximum length was 400 km and rallies like Monte and Argentina made their routes closer to that. So we're close to halving the event length...

[AndyRAC]

No, the basic principles have remained unchanged from the 60's. The biggest change is that you can now restart in the rally (since early 00's) and you can get extra points from the power stage (since 2011). Yes, the events have become shorter, you don't get to service between every stage, you don't drive overnight, but the sport hasn't changed that much. In fact, the biggest change for rallying as a sport occurred in the early 60's (?) when special stages took over other driving tests, and the events weren't consisting anymore mostly of long road sections.

So, it has changed; all those points you make are what makes it different. You can score points without doing the full event - and be classified ahead of somebody doing the full event; Loeb 2nd at Monte in 2006.

[TypeR]

Let's make it more simple..
One event consists of three ,,Guanajuato'' style 80km stages and check

[Mirek]

Let's make it more simple..
One event consists of three ,,Guanajuato'' style 80km stages and check

And the late runners will not drive a single one of them because it will be always canceled for them for some reason.