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Thread: WRC future

  1. #1041
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnttiL View Post
    Mahonen also said in the podcast that he's seen the same happen in circuit racing, first they start with a cheap car and then the teams start demanding more gadgets on the cars and finally the manufacturer pulls the plug because it's too expensive.
    As long as manufactures are involved that will always happen. You have the examplte of the TCR cars. When the concept was introduced you had a lot of brands and companies working making cars. Since Hyundai and Lynk&Co. appeared the championship started to be extremely expensive and you almost can see privateers ono the grid. They will end up leaving when they realise that the investment is bigger that what they are gettingt in terms of media return.

  2. #1042
    Senior Member Rally Power's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnttiL View Post
    But this thought was based on the idea of normal R5 being the main class, what Colin Clark et al on twitter tout about having the local guys being able to challenge the factory drivers in their home event. If we have an R5+ thing, it would solve nicely the problem by having again a more expensive top class with more performance...and out of reach of the local guys.
    Even if more expensive than current R5, a R5+ would certainly cost way less than a Rally1H.

    What mostly puzzles me is in this debate is that suggesting a reasonable R5 upgrade for WRC use is seen as an heresy, while apparently no one is bothered with having the strangest possible layout on ‘22 WRC cars: a WRC+ engine with an expensive (and yet to know how it’ll actually work) Hybrid system, mounted on a ‘buggy’ chassis using R5 transmission and suspensions, all covered by a scale down silhouette body...

    Btw, for sure it’s great to have local crews fighting for international events wins, but that only works on regional series, like the ERC; we all know that in the WRC factory teams will always have the edge over privateers, even when running apparently identical cars.
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  3. #1043
    Senior Member AnttiL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rally Power View Post

    What mostly puzzles me is in this debate is that suggesting a reasonable R5 upgrade for WRC use is seen as an heresy, while apparently no one is bothered with having the strangest possible layout on ‘22 WRC cars: a WRC+ engine with an expensive (and yet to know how it’ll actually work) Hybrid system, mounted on a ‘buggy’ chassis using R5 transmission and suspensions, all covered by a scale down silhouette body...
    Not R5 transmission and suspension. Simpler than now, but not the same. Scaling down and tubular framework are there to make it easier for manufacturers to jump in if they don't have a car of the right size they want to market in rallying.

    R5+ would be cheaper than the 2022 Rally1 hybrid cars, but the question is, would it give any value to the manufacturers?

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  5. #1044
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rally Power View Post
    Even if more expensive than current R5, a R5+ would certainly cost way less than a Rally1H.
    Are you sure of that? Okay, let's assume that the car cost double down, so you'd have R5+ costing around 600k. I don't see a lot of privateers runing them, as they didn't run the 1.6WRC cars that were in the same cost region

    Quote Originally Posted by Rally Power View Post
    What mostly puzzles me is in this debate is that suggesting a reasonable R5 upgrade for WRC use is seen as an heresy, while apparently no one is bothered with having the strangest possible layout on ‘22 WRC cars: a WRC+ engine with an expensive (and yet to know how it’ll actually work) Hybrid system, mounted on a ‘buggy’ chassis using R5 transmission and suspensions, all covered by a scale down silhouette body...
    Have you seen the cars already? Because for me they are still a concept...

    Quote Originally Posted by Rally Power View Post
    Btw, for sure it’s great to have local crews fighting for international events wins, but that only works on regional series, like the ERC; we all know that in the WRC factory teams will always have the edge over privateers, even when running apparently identical cars.
    See that's the problem with your concept of R5+. If the local or privateer crews cannot fight for the ralis, and realistically for a place opn the top5 (assuming that you still had at least 3 manu's) why would you scale down on the spectacle of the cars? Would you realistically think that Citroen or Skoda would enter the championship? Or that Toyota would bother to create an R5 on purpose?

  6. #1045
    Senior Member Sulland's Avatar
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    To get bigger number of followers online, they need to utilize the technology that is awailable today.
    - Split times, they need to have more splits. The split difference on each driver need to say if he is getting closer or loosing to the best in class. The commentators need to make it exiting, by using time diffs more than today.

    - Split screen, so even if there is an interview at stage end you still see the next driver. They can also use it, split horisontally to compare drivers, to see where thy loose and gain.

    - Better commentators, that always has an expert commentator, x-driver, that can explain driving styles, tyrechoices, team tactics and so on.

    It has been the same since they started All-Live, time to evolve!

  7. Likes: AndyRAC (2nd December 2020),b3637853 (2nd December 2020),cali (3rd December 2020),Jewy46 (2nd December 2020),TheFlyingTuga (2nd December 2020)
  8. #1046
    Senior Member AnttiL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sulland View Post
    To get bigger number of followers online, they need to utilize the technology that is awailable today.
    - Split times, they need to have more splits. The split difference on each driver need to say if he is getting closer or loosing to the best in class. The commentators need to make it exiting, by using time diffs more than today.

    - Split screen, so even if there is an interview at stage end you still see the next driver. They can also use it, split horisontally to compare drivers, to see where thy loose and gain.

    - Better commentators, that always has an expert commentator, x-driver, that can explain driving styles, tyrechoices, team tactics and so on.

    It has been the same since they started All-Live, time to evolve!
    I don't think we need more split times than what we have now, the commentators could just be more awake with them.

    We already have picture in picture for showing the stage end interview at the same time as the next driver footage.

    Split screen for comparison isn't as useful as it sounds like, it's difficult to follow two cars at the same time. The differences over the course of a kilometre can be very minimal between the current top drivers.

    As for expert commentators, I agree, that's always best when we have an ex-driver or current driver commentating.

    But this is just about what value we as paying customers get. You cannot get new followers from improving the service which is completely behind the paywall.

    I would introduce new payment options. Something like

    - Pay-per-rally. The month system is stupid because some months have more rallies than others. 8 euros per rally?
    - Pay-per-stage. If you don't have time to watch all stages, you can just buy credits for stage. Maybe you buy 6 stages for a weekend. One euro per stage?
    - Try one stage for free (or maybe half a stage and then you have to pay to continue )
    - Add sample footage of one All Live stage youtube to show how it is. Right now you have have no samples anywhere except for shakedowns which are always a horrible mess. Stream the first Friday stage on YouTube for free, get people hooked on and start getting new subscriptions before the next stage?
    Last edited by AnttiL; 2nd December 2020 at 15:14.

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  10. #1047
    Senior Member Rally Power's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnttiL View Post
    Not R5 transmission and suspension. Simpler than now, but not the same.
    If it’s not the same, it’ll be pretty close, with only 5 speeds and no active diff; https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/wrc-2...-need-to-know/

    Btw, a R5 based solution (it could be called R5+ or anything else) was already advanced in January by MSport boss; https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/a...malcolm-wilson

    It’s interesting to notice that Matton and Wilson estimations on Rally1H price are hugely different; probably the real value will be in the middle, close to current WRC cars price as Makinen predicted some time ago.
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  11. #1048
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rally Power View Post
    If it’s not the same, it’ll be pretty close, with only 5 speeds and no active diff; https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/wrc-2...-need-to-know/

    Btw, a R5 based solution (it could be called R5+ or anything else) was already advanced in January by MSport boss; https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/a...malcolm-wilson

    It’s interesting to notice that Matton and Wilson estimations on Rally1H price are hugely different; probably the real value will be in the middle, close to current WRC cars price as Makinen predicted some time ago.
    Why are we talking (again) about things 1 year old, already surpassed by reality???

  12. Likes: AnttiL (2nd December 2020),EstWRC (2nd December 2020),Mirek (2nd December 2020),pantealex (2nd December 2020),TheFlyingTuga (2nd December 2020)
  13. #1049
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rally Power View Post
    Btw, a R5 based solution (it could be called R5+ or anything else) was already advanced in January by MSport boss; https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/a...malcolm-wilson
    It's funny that Wilson says that the cost cap is 190k for Rally2 and you cannot get one for less than 300k. Business man will speak what it is best for their business. Wilson cannot match the top dollars brought by Toyota and Hyundai to R&D a new rally car, so he "cries" for the cost cap and try to push for a concept that M-Sport have already tested and proved... what an admiration

  14. #1050
    Senior Member Rally Power's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnttiL View Post
    R5+ would be cheaper than the 2022 Rally1 hybrid cars, but the question is, would it give any value to the manufacturers?
    Apparently it would. Besides MSport, Hyundai also looked in favor of closer to R5 specs, while Toyota seemed always pushing for more expensive features. At the end a compromise was reached, probably by giving MSport green light to use Rally1cars in national champs or by freezing GRE developments in order to control costs, as Hyundai asked.
    https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/wrc-k...2-hybrid-move/
    Rally addict since 1982

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