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Thread: WRC future

  1. #941
    Senior Member Fast Eddie WRC's Avatar
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  2. #942
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnttiL View Post
    This is not my cup of tea and i sorelely miss the "good old days" of night rallying, 5 days across the country event and loud and roaring open exhausts. But this is 2020, not 1970 anymore ...

    It may be a do or die time for rallying, and i buy the argument that you better be ahead of your time rather than running behind (and being eventuall left dead by the roadside). When you see the success and media suport of extreme E, which is almost a joke (to Rallying standards), it let you wonder if the rallying community is not totally missing the target. Wy not going with the current cars for a couple of years (or more) and then around 2023/2024, switch to full electric ?
    I understad all the arguments about logistics, road sections, car weight, etc .. but not only is the technology moving fast, but at the same times rallyes are becoming shorter and shorter, both in terms of SS distance and road section (the hatred "leaf format..."). There may be a way to make it work...
    Just throwing an indea (Antill, Mirek, don't kill me !), whazt do you guys think ?

  3. Likes: AndyRAC (4th November 2020),AnttiL (4th November 2020)
  4. #943
    Senior Member Mirek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnttiL View Post

    My three cents

    1) Actual electric sports or race cars have extremely short range when pushed to the maximum. Forget about road range of stock cars, that's completely different scale of power drained from the batteries. There is no info about battery capacity but considering the vehicle weight I am pretty sure it can not do a typical WRC loop, possibly not even one half.

    2) 1400 kg heavy car has to be way more powerful than R5 cars to be reasonably faster which gets us into a vicious circle. The bigger power requires bigger batteries and the weight grows. IMHO it will be very difficult if not impossible to have full electric cars faster than R5 cars over the typical WRC stage and liaisons distance.

    3) One thing is to be faster the other is to appear faster for the audience. That is very difficult to solve because the electric cars simply lack the wow efect.
    Stupid is as stupid does. Forrest Gump

  5. Likes: pantealex (6th November 2020),Rally Power (4th November 2020)
  6. #944
    Senior Member AnttiL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by djip View Post
    Wy not going with the current cars for a couple of years (or more) and then around 2023/2024, switch to full electric ?
    I understad all the arguments about logistics, road sections, car weight, etc .. but not only is the technology moving fast, but at the same times rallyes are becoming shorter and shorter, both in terms of SS distance and road section (the hatred "leaf format..."). There may be a way to make it work...
    Just throwing an indea (Antill, Mirek, don't kill me !), whazt do you guys think ?
    Well, I think it's too early to go electric. We just got the first prototype introduced today. A lot of issues still to be solved with electric cars in rallying in terms of range and safety. I'm sure Paddon's team is working on them as we speak. Before making it the main class, make it first a sub class, with maybe a shorter route.

  7. Likes: Jewy46 (4th November 2020),pantealex (6th November 2020),Rally Hokkaido (4th November 2020),Sulland (4th November 2020)
  8. #945
    Senior Member Sulland's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mirek View Post
    My three cents

    1) Actual electric sports or race cars have extremely short range when pushed to the maximum. Forget about road range of stock cars, that's completely different scale of power drained from the batteries. There is no info about battery capacity but considering the vehicle weight I am pretty sure it can not do a typical WRC loop, possibly not even one half.
    The only way a e-rallycar could work on todays battery tech is with a battery switch system in place. Either by brand or common for all. For a common system to work, thay all have to agree on battery shape, and that will not happen I guess.
    As said before, the only "off track" motorsport that electric cars could work is Rallycross, and hyperquick charging ala Porsche;
    Up to 270 kW using its 800-volt architecture to achieve a range of up to 100 km (WLTP) in 5 minutes under optimum conditions.

  9. #946
    Senior Member Mirek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sulland View Post
    The only way a e-rallycar could work on todays battery tech is with a battery switch system in place. Either by brand or common for all. For a common system to work, thay all have to agree on battery shape, and that will not happen I guess.
    As said before, the only "off track" motorsport that electric cars could work is Rallycross, and hyperquick charging ala Porsche;
    Up to 270 kW using its 800-volt architecture to achieve a range of up to 100 km (WLTP) in 5 minutes under optimum conditions.
    100 km WLTP is around 5-10 km of race regime...

    270 kW charger is nice thing on paper. Now imagine you need to charge dozens of batteries at the same time at the same place. Would you build a power plant in the service park or how are you going to do that?
    Last edited by Mirek; 4th November 2020 at 13:57.
    Stupid is as stupid does. Forrest Gump

  10. Likes: cali (4th November 2020),pantealex (6th November 2020)
  11. #947
    Senior Member Fast Eddie WRC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnttiL View Post
    Hayden Paddon @HaydenPaddon

    Couldnít agree more. As much as we all love the current cars they are not sustainable commercially. The sport is driven by manufacturers - without them there is no WRC. Itís pretty clear what path manufacturers are taking, and they should all be using WRC/Motorsport as a test bed.

  12. #948
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mirek View Post
    100 km WLTP is around 5-10 km of race regime...

    270 kW charger is nice thing on paper. Now imagine you need to charge dozens of batteries at the same time at the same place. Would you build a power plant in the service park or how are you going to do that?
    Porsche already has a solution for this, a trailer with 2.1 MWh battery pack that can charge 10 cars simultaneously with full power (350 kW). This could be used even at stage ends for example.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6lm...%C3%B8rnNyland
    https://newsroom.porsche.com/en/2020...ces-22285.html
    Last edited by Tanelv; 4th November 2020 at 14:40.

  13. #949
    Senior Member er88's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drive View Post
    Jesus. The state of that...., my washing machine is louder. I wouldn't waste the time and money to venture out in the stages to watch something like that....., surely there could be ways to add some "noise"?

  14. #950
    Senior Member Rally Power's Avatar
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    Itís incredible how this full EVís BS is rising, in motorsport and on daily life; no one can be sure of the mid and long time effects of BEVís use, considering full life emissions cycle (from factory to junkyard), recycling issues or grid expansion costs. Once this is mainly a politically driven process, I bet in 10 years weíll be facing even higher CO2 emissions, plus huge battery pollution and electricity prices rising througt the roof.

    On this electric Kona effect in Rally, letís please not take it too seriously; Paddon is basically promoting his proto without knowing that it can work on real rally conditions, unless we turn the sport into a joke (with Mickey Mouse stages and endless service breaks for battery swap or recharge).

    Hybrids are the future for top motorsport series, like F1, WEC, Imsa and even Nascar (from í22) are showing; letís not destroy Rally just for trying to be ahead of time.
    Last edited by Rally Power; 4th November 2020 at 21:38.
    Rally addict since 1982

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