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Thread: WRC future

  1. #1231
    Senior Member Mirek's Avatar
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    It's no wonder, it's been about a decade in whichs the championship to play the junior role for WRC was ERC/IRC.
    Last edited by Mirek; 8th March 2021 at 11:19.
    Stupid is as stupid does. Forrest Gump

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    Senior Member AnttiL's Avatar
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    If a driver gets the budget together for JWRC and wins it, they have nowhere to go, unless they can triple(?) their budget and get in WRC2/3. I think that gap has stopped the progress of many drivers. Meanwhile, there's also a new car to learn, 4WD, more setup and more speed.

    Now it will be more expensive to get a budget for a WRC3 Junior season, but at the same time, you will be closer to the level of where you need to be the year after.

    I wouldn't mind having a FWD cup somewhere as well, but I understand there cannot be an endless amount of them.

  3. #1233
    Senior Member Jarek Z's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scn View Post
    What happens now is a slow death of the sport. Witness how many old cars we still have in French, Italian, German, Spanish and British rallying. Actually, these old cars keep the sport alive. Without them, rallies would not have enough participants to be financially viable. But, for how long? And for how long can the sport afford to have only rich young drivers in it?
    I copy&pasted this opinion from the Audi thread, because it refers to the future of rallying. On the one hand I agree with you about a slow death of the rally sport. But on the other hand... we are in the middle of the coronavirus crisis, the economy is down, but at the same time:

    1) I have just seen a provisional entry list for Rallye le Touquet, the first round of 2021 French rally championship, and, believe it or not, there are over 260 crews with 36 R5 cars on it!
    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ObY...S6Q2JK5mwsESAk

    2) I have just seen entry list for Rally Il Ciocco, the first round of 2021 Italian rally championship with over 100 crews and 37 R5 cars:
    https://www.cioccorally.it/wp-conten...critti_CIR.pdf

    From this perspective it doesn't look like a dying sport...
    http://www.rallymadness.prv.pl - rally photos and movies!

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  5. #1234
    Senior Member AnttiL's Avatar
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    https://twitter.com/belgakinen/statu...12004930641923

    Lots of interesting infos given in the new SpeedMagazine by Yves Matton about the new class pyramid. Here are a few bits:
    -Two new rally3 cars should join the Fiesta in the future
    -Rally5 will allow electric and hydrogen cars
    -Rally1 might run on synthetic fuel as soon as 2021
    -No new Rally1 manufacturer until at least 2023
    -Hybrid "Boost" of Rally1 only allowed on the start line and on the exit of predetermined slow corners on stages

    And way, way more informations in this single article. Always highly recommend this magazine.

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    Senior Member AnttiL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarek Z View Post
    I copy&pasted this opinion from the Audi thread, because it refers to the future of rallying. On the one hand I agree with you about a slow death of the rally sport. But on the other hand... we are in the middle of the coronavirus crisis, the economy is down, but at the same time:

    1) I have just seen a provisional entry list for Rallye le Touquet, the first round of 2021 French rally championship, and, believe it or not, there are over 260 crews with 36 R5 cars on it!
    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ObY...S6Q2JK5mwsESAk

    2) I have just seen entry list for Rally Il Ciocco, the first round of 2021 Italian rally championship with over 100 crews and 37 R5 cars:
    https://www.cioccorally.it/wp-conten...critti_CIR.pdf

    From this perspective it doesn't look like a dying sport...
    Same with the huge Rally2 entries on the latest WRC events. However, could it be that when there is few events to run, the ones that can be run gather more competitors?

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    Quote Originally Posted by AnttiL View Post
    Same with the huge Rally2 entries on the latest WRC events. However, could it be that when there is few events to run, the ones that can be run gather more competitors?
    it is, at least for Italy. Federation is looking for the post-covid era (hopefully 2022) fewer events that will be a bit longer (atm in Italy are quite ridiculous). So that seems to be a good trend for the future.

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  11. #1237
    Senior Member AnttiL's Avatar
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    https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/wrc-t...hybrid-issues/

    The teams have the hybrid units but the charger and software are missing.

    It also says the cost of a hybrid unit is 100 000 euros (not 500 000 like mentioned somewhere in discussions) and the system will gather energy during road section to be used on stages and city sections.

  12. Likes: cali (11th March 2021),TypeR (11th March 2021)
  13. #1238
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    To me even 100k is pretty expensive.. as the system isn't something revolutionary..
    Toyota Motor Co could have done it a lot cheaper and faster as they have been building hybrids for 20 years..
    But let's see how the tests will go from now on.

  14. #1239
    Senior Member Mirek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TypeR View Post
    To me even 100k is pretty expensive.. as the system isn't something revolutionary..
    Toyota Motor Co could have done it a lot cheaper and faster as they have been building hybrids for 20 years..
    But let's see how the tests will go from now on.
    I'd like to see your price calculations...

    Seriously any system is hugely expensive if it is made in small numbers, in this case essentially in single units mainly because all the R&D costs is not dispersed over huge quantity of the units. The very same system would cost fraction of the price if it was made in hundreds of thousands. Saying "that's expensive" is the easiest thing one can do but building something cheaper usually turns out to be a much bigger issue.


    Just some random numbers...

    Let's say you have five people working on the project. The cost of them including all taxes, insurance, tools (including software), building etc. is let's say 10k Euro/month/person. They work on that for one year. that's roughly 2,5 million Euro. Then you build prototypes and test them. Those are hugely expensive, let's say you spend 1 million on them. You have 3,5 million Euro R&D cost and you know you will produce maximum 50 units. That makes it 70 thousand Euro R&D cost per unit alone (without material production, delivery and of cource some profit). Make 1000 of them and it's 3500 Euro per unit. Make 100000 of them and it's 35 Euro per unit.
    Last edited by Mirek; 11th March 2021 at 14:13.
    Stupid is as stupid does. Forrest Gump

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  16. #1240
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mirek View Post
    I'd like to see your price calculations...

    Seriously any system is hugely expensive if it is made in small numbers, in this case essentially in single units mainly because all the R&D costs is not dispersed over huge quantity of the units. The very same system would cost fraction of the price if it was made in hundreds of thousands. Saying "that's expensive" is the easiest thing one can do but building something cheaper usually turns out to be a much bigger issue.


    Just some random numbers...

    Let's say you have five people working on the project. The cost of them including all taxes, insurance, tools (including software), building etc. is let's say 10k Euro/month/person. They work on that for one year. that's roughly 2,5 million Euro. Then you build prototypes and test them. Those are hugely expensive, let's say you spend 1 million on them. You have 3,5 million Euro R&D cost and you know you will produce maximum 50 units. That makes it 70 thousand Euro R&D cost per unit alone (without material production, delivery and of cource some profit). Make 1000 of them and it's 3500 Euro per unit. Make 100000 of them and it's 35 Euro per unit.
    As TypeR says, there's nothing new or revolutionary about it. There is no reason why there should be high costs for development. There's no reason why 10 people should work a year to do some small changes to an existing system.

    If the system is the same for everyone, there's no reason for it to be expensive.

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