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Thread: WRC future

  1. #761
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mirek View Post
    Running liaisons on electricity was an idea promoted at certain point by FIA but naturally it was rejected because carrying a few hundred kilos of ballast in a competition car which is completely useless on stage makes no sense whatsoever.
    Why do you say the extra parts (weight) don't make sense ? We tend to forget the essence rallying : Laison (=going from one place to the next) is also part of the rally - even if today it is totally uneventful. Otherwise, this is world RX ...

  2. #762
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    It is a still a technology issue that electric have different performance to the petrol/ liquid fuel cars.


    If I remember correctly the EV for WRC was just to go through mountain villages etc rather than having a full noise turbo rattling through the ville.
    Paddon is looking to swap batteries between stages with the Kona EV, till technology improves.

    A tesla battery has near 5 times the energy density of the prius lithium battery.(80kg)

    Liasion can still be eventful, a competitor did a nz event a few months back with the clutch stuck to the flywheel, relying on smashing through no clutch dogbox gear changes to complete the event.

    Fast charging is improving all the time. the estonian Ultra capacitors are looking at recharging times faster than town petrol station refills.
    Atlis lithium battery 2020 - 500 miles for USA pickup truck charge in 9 and half minutes. new battery configuration.
    https://youtu.be/gkPg5XYf8jg?t=55

    2014 Are these still operating in Bratislava? - van battery swap of 600 kg packs.
    https://youtu.be/SXXbFqhlQs8
    Last edited by Humber; 20th October 2020 at 04:11.

  3. #763
    Senior Member AnttiL's Avatar
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    If you think about a car manufacturer boss, you can't expect them to be rally nuts or interested in rally (just because Akio Toyoda is). For them it could be a case of "give me a list of all the motorsports we are sponsoring and which power source they are using" - and crossing out everything which doesn't say "hybrid" or "electric".

    Would Rally2 hybrid then be the right choice? Do the manufacturers have hybrid versions of the current Rally2 cars? I think there is soon a Ford Fiesta light hybrid, but I couldn't find any information about a hybrid Skoda Fabia, Citroen C3 or Hyundai i20, likely not at least with the current body types.

    Remember how the 2022 Rally1 rules allow you to scale down the body? That's how the car manufacturers can market the bigger models which more typically have a hybrid system in the road car versions. It would be slightly more expensive than Rally2 hybrids, but it would give more marketing value for the manufacturers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by djip View Post
    What we have today is 8 Rally1 starters = top 8 positions (unless you retire), even if you are a midfield driver with cash (Greensmith, Loubet, ...) - which is pretty boring.
    Not really, we've had 8 proper factory entries in every rally, and then the Greensmiths et al on top of that. Every rally has had more than 8 WRC cars on the start line!

    Quote Originally Posted by djip View Post
    Yes but the difference would not be 15+ minutes at rally end.
    Well, the rallies are also shorter, we should look at s/km instead. I'm picking up random rallies, like Monte 1975, the best privateer finished 3.3 s/km behind the winner. Or Finland 1976, best privateer was 2.66 s/km behind the winner.

    Then we look at Monte 2020 and see that Eric Camilli with an R5 finished 2.7 s/km behind the winner. Finland 2019, Kalle Rovanperä with R5 was 1.5 s/km behind the winner!

    The quintessence of rallying is (i) using everyday's roads (ii) everyone, from the top professional to the true amateur, competing on "equal" footing, e.g. doing the same events, same stages etc .. Rallying history is full of surprizing performances, privately entered) cars (see, from the top of my head, Alen, RAC 73, Airrikkala RAC 75, "Tony" San Remo 79)
    You are using examples of the 70's. Rallying became a lot more professional in the 80's, mainly from the influence of Audi. After that it has been quite rare that a privateer succeeds in a rally, especially if it is a round for manufacturer points (this is why NZ and Ivory Coast rallies, for example, were sometimes won by privateers).

    Tony Fassina in 1979 was seeded #2 with a Lancia Stratos against Fiat 131's and Talbot Sunbeams, how surprising is that he won?
    Last edited by AnttiL; 20th October 2020 at 08:17.

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    Senior Member AnttiL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by doubled1978 View Post
    Skoda, Citroen, Ford, Hyundai, VW and hopefully Toyota could all enter factory, or factory supported private teams (Red Bull BRR VW?) almost straight away
    That is a big assumption, considering that Skoda, Citroen, Ford and VW do not have factory teams at the moment and Toyota doesn't have a Rally2 car ready. Citroen and Skoda just stopped their operations and VW even announced they're not interested in supporting combustion engine motorsports anymore.

  6. Likes: EstWRC (20th October 2020),pantealex (21st October 2020)
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnttiL View Post
    That is a big assumption, considering that Skoda, Citroen, Ford and VW do not have factory teams at the moment and Toyota doesn't have a Rally2 car ready. Citroen and Skoda just stopped their operations and VW even announced they're not interested in supporting combustion engine motorsports anymore.
    Yet all these manufacturer have semi-private, very professional teams entering (randomly i admit) the events with their cars. How would that be any different than fully-backed teams if driven properly ? And maybe importers could now afford to support a lone entry here and there to spice it up.

    All in all, I like the idea of more (supposidely) equal footing entry, instead of just having to pick from 9 drivers (3x3), always the same, at any given round. Remember the 90's ? The entry list was so full of A8 cars that you had to wait for entry #35 if not more for the first A7 .... and many of them were serious drivers that could compete, if not for the top spot, at least for the top 6.

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  9. #767
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    One thing to consider is that the reign of the factory team might be coming to close in WRC as well, like it is in many other motorsport series already. WRC might no longer have full factory teams, but rather semi-official teams with varying amounts of factory support. M-Sport has already run such operation for many years. DTM is the latest series to move towards this model, ok, they were forced to do the change but WRC might eventually be as well. Like some have said, such changes might open up more possibilities for serious privateers to compete better (not win).

    Unfortunately I do not see use of motorsports in marketing to grow in the future, but rather diminish. For us who are fans we might see it differently, but the rest of the world wont. I would see it important for FIA and other rallying authorities to support any path that keeps the sport healthiest, both the flagship series as well the local ones - whatever that might mean. FIA being FIA - I am not 100% positive this will happen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by djip View Post
    Yet all these manufacturer have semi-private, very professional teams entering (randomly i admit) the events with their cars. How would that be any different than fully-backed teams if driven properly ? And maybe importers could now afford to support a lone entry here and there to spice it up.
    How would it be different? A whole lot more expensive to pay a top driver like Ogier, Neuville or Tänak, and take three cars to every round of the season, do testing for every driver and also development work.
    All in all, I like the idea of more (supposidely) equal footing entry, instead of just having to pick from 9 drivers (3x3), always the same, at any given round. Remember the 90's ? The entry list was so full of A8 cars that you had to wait for entry #35 if not more for the first A7 .... and many of them were serious drivers that could compete, if not for the top spot, at least for the top 6.
    I do. And I remember the homebuilt A8 cars which at best fought with the best N4 cars.

    If we ignore Safari and the rallies without manufacturer points available, here's the surprising podiums I can find:

    - 1990 Corsica Chatriot 3rd (with BMW M3!)
    - 1991 Corsica Cunico 3rd
    - 1991 Sanremo Cerrato 3rd (Jolly Club Lancia)
    - 1993 Sanremo Cunico 1st Snijers 2nd Pianezzola 3rd (Toyota, Mitsubishi and Subaru didn't even enter the rally!)
    - 1993 RAC Wilson 3rd
    - 1996 Finland Kytölehto 3rd
    - 1997 Finland Kytölehto 3rd
    - 1998 Portugal Loix 3rd

    And then a bunch of F2 podiums on tarmac rallies which were in the end down to the regulations allowing the cars to be light enough.

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  13. #769
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnttiL View Post
    That is a big assumption, considering that Skoda, Citroen, Ford and VW do not have factory teams at the moment and Toyota doesn't have a Rally2 car ready. Citroen and Skoda just stopped their operations and VW even announced they're not interested in supporting combustion engine motorsports anymore.
    I said could not would, I’m making no assumptions.
    But if the WRC offered an opportunity to promote at the top level with a car they have more or less already developed, and compete at a fraction of the previous cost, I’d be surprised if they all weren’t at least interested, and if they can hide it under the ‘customer’ motorsport banner through BRR in the case of VW, even better for them.
    Maybe running it in similar way to GT3 would work, where all the cars are entered by private teams rather than factories, and have factory drivers placed with them. Then you could have multiple teams running the same cars as well.

  14. Likes: RS (20th October 2020)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mirek View Post
    Running liaisons on electricity was an idea promoted at certain point by FIA but naturally it was rejected because carrying a few hundred kilos of ballast in a competition car which is completely useless on stage makes no sense whatsoever.
    Could make sence to me, because same for all...
    "Reis vas pät pat kaar vas kut"
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