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Thread: WRC future

  1. #771
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    One thing to consider is that the reign of the factory team might be coming to close in WRC as well, like it is in many other motorsport series already. WRC might no longer have full factory teams, but rather semi-official teams with varying amounts of factory support. M-Sport has already run such operation for many years. DTM is the latest series to move towards this model, ok, they were forced to do the change but WRC might eventually be as well. Like some have said, such changes might open up more possibilities for serious privateers to compete better (not win).

    Unfortunately I do not see use of motorsports in marketing to grow in the future, but rather diminish. For us who are fans we might see it differently, but the rest of the world wont. I would see it important for FIA and other rallying authorities to support any path that keeps the sport healthiest, both the flagship series as well the local ones - whatever that might mean. FIA being FIA - I am not 100% positive this will happen.

  2. Likes: AnttiL (20th October 2020),cali (21st October 2020)
  3. #772
    Senior Member AnttiL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by djip View Post
    Yet all these manufacturer have semi-private, very professional teams entering (randomly i admit) the events with their cars. How would that be any different than fully-backed teams if driven properly ? And maybe importers could now afford to support a lone entry here and there to spice it up.
    How would it be different? A whole lot more expensive to pay a top driver like Ogier, Neuville or Tänak, and take three cars to every round of the season, do testing for every driver and also development work.
    All in all, I like the idea of more (supposidely) equal footing entry, instead of just having to pick from 9 drivers (3x3), always the same, at any given round. Remember the 90's ? The entry list was so full of A8 cars that you had to wait for entry #35 if not more for the first A7 .... and many of them were serious drivers that could compete, if not for the top spot, at least for the top 6.
    I do. And I remember the homebuilt A8 cars which at best fought with the best N4 cars.

    If we ignore Safari and the rallies without manufacturer points available, here's the surprising podiums I can find:

    - 1990 Corsica Chatriot 3rd (with BMW M3!)
    - 1991 Corsica Cunico 3rd
    - 1991 Sanremo Cerrato 3rd (Jolly Club Lancia)
    - 1993 Sanremo Cunico 1st Snijers 2nd Pianezzola 3rd (Toyota, Mitsubishi and Subaru didn't even enter the rally!)
    - 1993 RAC Wilson 3rd
    - 1996 Finland Kytölehto 3rd
    - 1997 Finland Kytölehto 3rd
    - 1998 Portugal Loix 3rd

    And then a bunch of F2 podiums on tarmac rallies which were in the end down to the regulations allowing the cars to be light enough.

  4. Likes: pantealex (21st October 2020)
  5. #773
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnttiL View Post
    That is a big assumption, considering that Skoda, Citroen, Ford and VW do not have factory teams at the moment and Toyota doesn't have a Rally2 car ready. Citroen and Skoda just stopped their operations and VW even announced they're not interested in supporting combustion engine motorsports anymore.
    I said could not would, I’m making no assumptions.
    But if the WRC offered an opportunity to promote at the top level with a car they have more or less already developed, and compete at a fraction of the previous cost, I’d be surprised if they all weren’t at least interested, and if they can hide it under the ‘customer’ motorsport banner through BRR in the case of VW, even better for them.
    Maybe running it in similar way to GT3 would work, where all the cars are entered by private teams rather than factories, and have factory drivers placed with them. Then you could have multiple teams running the same cars as well.

  6. Likes: RS (20th October 2020)
  7. #774
    Senior Member Rallyper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mirek View Post
    Running liaisons on electricity was an idea promoted at certain point by FIA but naturally it was rejected because carrying a few hundred kilos of ballast in a competition car which is completely useless on stage makes no sense whatsoever.
    Could make sence to me, because same for all...
    "Reis vas pät pat kaar vas kut"
    Tommi Mäkinen, back in the years...

  8. #775
    Senior Member Fast Eddie WRC's Avatar
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    Last edited by Fast Eddie WRC; 20th October 2020 at 16:18.

  9. Likes: AnttiL (20th October 2020),RS (20th October 2020),Tauri_J (20th October 2020),TWRC (20th October 2020)
  10. #776
    Senior Member Rally Power's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by djip View Post
    I shall stop here because this is really making me upset. There must be something I am missing since the solution is so obvious. Can it be that FIA (Matton) is to proud to admit he was wrong to change his mind (and this is not his fault, the world has changed dramatically in the past 12 months) ? Can it be that there are some $$$ involved that I am are not aware of, that WRC is just a cash cow for those in power who want to travel in style around the globe and live the F1 "jet set" life (which WRC cannot afford) ? Can it be that some key players are playing it solo for their own interest (read Makinen who is the ony one with no money issues and wants to remain atop with only sparring partners such as MSport) ?
    We tend to forget that these rules were made by the FIA on a permanent dialogue with all the manus; according to what was told at the beginning, Toyota pushed for even more costly in-house developed systems but they end agreeing with common hybrids units use, and so the other 2; that’s why the FIA launched a public tender for an external supplier at the end of 2019. It’s also known that during the lockdown Adamo was praising the FIA for the new rules.

    So, what went wrong afterwards? It’s hard to tell but it seems clear that the current mess could be avoided if the FIA got manus formal commitment before launching the tender, not after it, as they’re now trying to do; this way, any manu can pull-out the series at the end of ’21 without being fined...


    PDF link to Hybrid systems tender:
    https://legal.fia.com/web/appeloffre.nsf/F1AA7144B5082934C12584D500563B6B/$FILE/ITT%20WRC%20Hybrid%20System%202022-2024_Final%2019.12.2019.pdf?openelement
    Adamo on the rules making:
    https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/wrc-2...has-ever-seen/
    Rally addict since 1982

  11. Likes: AnttiL (20th October 2020)
  12. #777
    Senior Member Mirek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by djip View Post
    Why do you say the extra parts (weight) don't make sense ? We tend to forget the essence rallying : Laison (=going from one place to the next) is also part of the rally - even if today it is totally uneventful. Otherwise, this is world RX ...
    Because by adding 200 kg to a WRC car (just an example but the batteries and other extra stuff are heavy) you make it probably hardly any faster than an R5 car while being multiple-times more expensive. Does it make any sense to you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rallyper View Post
    Could make sence to me, because same for all...
    Think about it again, please.
    Stupid is as stupid does. Forrest Gump

  13. Likes: cali (21st October 2020),pantealex (21st October 2020)
  14. #778
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    [QUOTE=Mirek;1253984]Because by adding 200 kg to a WRC car (just an example but the batteries and other extra stuff are heavy) you make it probably hardly any faster than an R5 car while being multiple-times more expensive. Does it make any sense to you?


    I get your point but "running ahead" as we say in french is not a solution either : In essence, you add a heavy (and costly) hybrid system that degrades car performances, so what is the solution : make the car even more complicated / expensive to keep the gap with the lower formula. Isn't there something twisted here ?

  15. #779
    Senior Member Mirek's Avatar
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    No. The only thing you need is to use such additional hybrid system for enhancing the vehicle performance instead of carrying it around for use on liaisons only. IMO it's actually pretty simple and logical thing.
    Stupid is as stupid does. Forrest Gump

  16. Likes: pantealex (21st October 2020)
  17. #780
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mirek View Post
    No. The only thing you need is to use such additional hybrid system for enhancing the vehicle performance instead of carrying it around for use on liaisons only. IMO it's actually pretty simple and logical thing.
    Because you are looking at it from the performance (e.g. sport) standpoint, which makes a lot of sense. But if you look at it from the marketing (e.g. business value) side of things, it is a different story. Ideally you are correct and everyone wants high performance cars. But this whole thread is about how to ensure manufactuers stay involved in the sport, not breaking speed records...

  18. Likes: Rallyper (21st October 2020),Sulland (20th October 2020)

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