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Thread: WRC future

  1. #541
    Senior Member AnttiL's Avatar
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    Can we leave the personal battles behind and move over to something else? Maybe even *sigh* discuss George Donaldson's idea of moving to R5's.

    What Donaldson suggests is that they put a bigger restrictor to get more horsepower, and just reinforce the parts which wouldn't withstand the increased power. I'm not saying it's impossible, but sure not as simple as he makes it sound like.

    If we think further, would Skoda join in as a manufacturer team? We know how great that car is, how much better than all the other cars. And would Toyota just drop out for a year while developing their R5 car? Would their drivers go to Skoda then? And what kind of a super team that would be...repeat of the VW era?

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    Senior Member satnav's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnttiL View Post
    Can we leave the personal battles behind and move over to something else? Maybe even *sigh* discuss George Donaldson's idea of moving to R5's.

    What Donaldson suggests is that they put a bigger restrictor to get more horsepower, and just reinforce the parts which wouldn't withstand the increased power. I'm not saying it's impossible, but sure not as simple as he makes it sound like.

    If we think further, would Skoda join in as a manufacturer team? We know how great that car is, how much better than all the other cars. And would Toyota just drop out for a year while developing their R5 car? Would their drivers go to Skoda then? And what kind of a super team that would be...repeat of the VW era?
    Don't forget VW already have an R5

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    Senior Member AnttiL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by satnav View Post
    Don't forget VW already have an R5
    But they don't have an active factory team, and VW has decided not to support any ICE motorsports anymore (although not sure if that applies to Skoda as well?)

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    Quote Originally Posted by AnttiL View Post
    Can we leave the personal battles behind and move over to something else? Maybe even *sigh* discuss George Donaldson's idea of moving to R5's.

    What Donaldson suggests is that they put a bigger restrictor to get more horsepower, and just reinforce the parts which wouldn't withstand the increased power. I'm not saying it's impossible, but sure not as simple as he makes it sound like.
    I know we've talked about the R5+ idea before and this forum have written it off, but I'd love to know from someone who ran the actual M-Sport Fiesta R5+ (or someone from M-Sport) how exactly the costs compared to buying/running the regular R5. That wasn't just a case of running a larger air restrictor, there were some mechanical differences, but they weren't extensive. When I asked someone at Goodwood a few years ago who was running one, I was told there wasn't too big a difference in the costs involved between that and the R5. As a spectator though I wasn't really in a position to ask for a breakdown of the costs! I've haven't got the impression that the R5+ Fiesta has been particularly unreliable, though nobody has been trying to get 400bhp out of one...

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    Senior Member satnav's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnttiL View Post
    But they don't have an active factory team, and VW has decided not to support any ICE motorsports anymore (although not sure if that applies to Skoda as well?)
    Yes they don't have an active factory team all but in name , VW are still developing this car which could be run as a satellite team by any number of teams.

    Regardless of this I reckon the future will be very different to what we have know in the past not just in motorsport.

  7. #546
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    Quote Originally Posted by the sniper View Post
    This is getting a bit tiresome now...



    If I had to guess I'd imagine that the move to SUV/'CUV' won't be warmly welcomed, but will have little impact on the (already now niche) following of the sport, particularly if their performance is similar to the current level. Those who gave up on rallying because of the cars used gave up a long time ago. I do believe that '17 cars brought some of these people back in though. Given that you can't provide 'evidence' that it'll have no impact, what evidence should Eddie provide?



    Well Neuville has said "I don't know if I'm really interested to drive these cars but we're going to find out."



    I'm afraid this is where I completely disagree with you over Eddie. Were there more Welsh locals out in 2017 than normal just to cheer on Elfyn? I'd say so. But I have no doubt that the '17 cars made a far greater impact on increased spectator numbers and general following of the sport in 2017, and even more so in subsequent years. I've had numerous discussions with random people out on stages over the last few years, with people who either hadn't closely followed the sport or attended stages since the Group B days or McRae/Burns era. Not one of them said they'd come out to see Elfyn, they all came back to see these cars. Literally the only person I've spoke to who came especially to see Elfyn was the young son (under the age of 10) of a local guy I got talking to in Gwydyr in 2018. Mintexmemory from this forum can probably vouch for this as he was with me!

    I also know a few lapsed fans, to greater or lesser extents, at my work who have followed the sport. I know one attended a Rally GB stage in 2017 after decades away because he wanted to see these cars. Another went to a lot of rallies (national and GB) for years up until around the early 2000s, I'm tempting him back on the basis of seeing these cars. Though he was far more interested in the sound of the Roger Albert Clark than my sales pitch of Rally GB! Additionally, for the few casual observers at my work, it's the hype and videos they've seen on the internet of these cars which has caught their attention. I doubt they could pick Elfyn Evans out of a line up Welshmen...

    That's not to write off the SUVs/CUVs, but they'll have to be done right to achieve the same effect.



    What's the point of this question? I haven't seen you posting much about attending National rallies, but I wouldn't use that against you to say you're not a proper rally fan...

    Sorry, not going to reply to the points you've made. I get what you're saying about it becoming tiresome and yes, I have a part in that, but you've answered on Eddie's behalf and I still don't see it differently than I did initially. But in the interest of it not getting any more tiresome, happy to leave it.

  8. Likes: the sniper (5th May 2020)
  9. #547
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    R5+ Fiesta is/was quite reliable car, didn't have any special weak points, and it was not developed that much, so some improvements are easily possible. Of course mileage of components was way lower. Even 2.0l R5+ was quite reliable car, without any especially big weak point.
    And R5+ like it is now (based on Evo2 engine) is faster than 2016 WRC car.

  10. Likes: cali (6th May 2020),skarderud (6th May 2020),the sniper (5th May 2020)
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    This whole R5+ concept is unfamiliar to me and it's difficult to obtain information on it. According to this the Fiesta R5+ has 30 BHP more than the normal Fiesta R5, so we would be talking around 320 BHP. This is far less than going to 400 BHP like George Donaldson suggested.
    Last edited by AnttiL; 5th May 2020 at 22:32.

  12. #549
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    R5 was replaced to Rally2 over 4 months ago...

    R5+ is marketing name that has been used by Msport only and for older model Fiesta. Or is there R5+ version of New Fiesta R5 ?

    Skoda produces only Rally2 cars, others do still R5 cars.

    At first we must decide what that new "R5+WRC" means
    -what kind of engine?
    -restrictor?
    -turbo size?
    -how many gears?
    -stick or paddle sifts?
    -diffs?
    -how wide? (WRC17 safety cockpit is way wider than R5 one, FIA is not going to go back on safety standards)
    -is titanium allowed?
    -aerodynamics?

    Right now term "R5+" means different thing to different people. For me it´s illegal national old model Fiesta R5
    "quattro best 4wd rallycar ever"

  13. Likes: NickRally (7th May 2020)
  14. #550
    Senior Member AnttiL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pantealex View Post
    R5 was replaced to Rally2 over 4 months ago...

    R5+ is marketing name that has been used by Msport only and for older model Fiesta. Or is there R5+ version of New Fiesta R5 ?

    Skoda produces only Rally2 cars, others do still R5 cars.

    At first we must decide what that new "R5+WRC" means
    -what kind of engine?
    -restrictor?
    -turbo size?
    -how many gears?
    -stick or paddle sifts?
    -diffs?
    -how wide? (WRC17 safety cockpit is way wider than R5 one, FIA is not going to go back on safety standards)
    -is titanium allowed?
    -aerodynamics?

    Right now term "R5+" means different thing to different people. For me it´s illegal national old model Fiesta R5
    OK, can you ease a bit with that Rally2/R5 talk, it's a bit tiring to hear all over. We all know what we're talking about when we say R5.

    I also think R5+ is only an M-Sport kit for the first model of Fiesta R5 which adds paddle shift, rear wing and turbo restrictor. Then there's also some 2.0L version? For sure they are not illegal, but just not complying to FIA regulations.

    The way I see George Donaldson's idea is the cars would be just as R5, but with a bigger restrictor to get more power, and then through testing we would find out which parts need to be reinforced for rallying use. No paddle shift, same engine, same 5 gear box, same diffs, same aero, same width etc. If you start changing them radically, it's already losing its meaning for cost savings. The 2022 cars were anyway going to have simpler aero, gearbox and diffs.

  15. Likes: the sniper (7th May 2020)

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